RE: "Society's Child" incredible song...for the time...

[nitejet]

I am a former broadcaster and on air talent from the days of AM Rock in the late 1960's...I was at a rock station in Charleston, West Virginia WCAW and WVAF-FM (now V-100) and the song came out...and it was such a monster of a great song...it got great airplay, contained such an interesting message, and it was musically just superior...

God I miss those days in readio when we had time to talk...to feel the songs with our listeners...and just do great radio.

I remember you, Janis...with extreme fondness...thanks for giving us such a great one...

Ralph Allen

[ponytail]

Welcome to the board, Nitejet!

You might want to check out Janis's current album, "Folk Is The New Black." She's still turning out great ones...sadly, today's formulaic radio isn't catching on yet like they should.

[Dar]

Personally I think it's an incredible song for ANY TIME.

[DaveM]

Get back out there get get Janis some more airplay....please!

[Dee]

Welcome Nitejet.

Did you know that Society's Child was inducted into the Grammy hall of Fame a couple of years ago? It's more than just the song that launched Janis Ian's career, it's a timeless classic. :)

For a time in my childhood I had aspirations to become a radio DJ as well. Bet those were fun times.

[Melba]

Couldn't agree with you more, Dee. As I have mentioned before, I was a DJ for about 3 years. Yes, they were fun times, but I lived/worked in a very small market and the pay left a lot to be desired. In some cases, its best to have that job if you have another source of income or a spouse who makes good money. At the time, I had neither. I really loved it, however and worked at stations that played Oldies, country, classic rock. Luckily, I like all kinds of music.....LOL. I attended broadcasting school too and had a major crush on my instructor.....;) This post has sparked me to remember a good time in my life.

Nitejet, you are correct in your analysis of the way radio has become. The stations where I live are all part of one big monopoly...with only one independent station left. Seems like they dont' really want any "personality" these days.

[Dee]

For me it's not so much that my local stations are lacking on-air personalities, but rather that they play a set of songs in cycles, and usually ones I could care less about. I rarely listen to commercial radio anymore because of that.

[hoops]

Janis played society's child fri night at the show... it gave me chills ( as did many of her songs) it IS timeless. Janis' work IS timeless. I think that is one of the marks of a true artist. Watch Janis perform, listen to her albums, you will find all the marks of a true and great artist, and then, when you meet her in person... OMG the circle is complete

[Patrick]

Certainly agree with what people are saying about commercial radio.But some of us can remember when folk music was what was making the hits. It started back with the Kingston Trio's hit "Tom Dooley" back in 1958. They, along with such groups as the Highwaymen, the Limeliters, and the Brothers 4 were a major force in late 50s/early 60s radio-the shortlived "Hootenanny" era.
Granted, much of this music was safe, slick, and commercialized, nothing controversial. Although Peter, Paul,and Mary did have a hit with Dylan's " "Blowing in the Wind." But it got a lot us interested in folk music and we went on to the "real stuff", like the Newport Folk Festival and authentic folk.
Looking back though its hard to imagine some of these songs like "Michael Row the Boat Ashore" or "Winoweh" making it to the charts today(assuming they even got played.)

[ponytail]

In the early 70s, when I was in high school in Philly, I listened constantly to WMMR, a progessive rock (as they called it then) station with deejays who programmed their own music. They frequently played Janis, Ralph McTell, John Prine, all kinds of wonderful artists. And they would talk to the audience between cuts in a relaxed, human way -- no fast, high-powered huckstering. There was a live Sunday night folk show, hosted by a wonderful man named Gene Shay, with live guests who were playing in the area.

Don't know what radio in general is like in Philadelphia these days, but where I live now there are nothing but plastic stations owned by conglomerates. The only "independent" station left is the public radio station, which -- due to the tyranny of the station manager -- plays NOTHING but classical music. I gave my partner Sirius satellite radio for Christmas so we have it in the car, and at home I listen to Radio Margaritaville while I work on the computer. But other than that, I don't listen to the radio. The airwaves have become a wasteland. It really is sad.:(

[DaveM]

For a brief time in 1980, I ran the booth at a small town station, allegedly to play music according to a playlist and periodically make announcements for the local community college. It was fine until I started getting bored....at which point I started making up my own commercials for KABG ("We're ahead of the rest", "the greatest radio station you ever slaw"), shooting my mouth off ("why am I doing this? Well, just remember folks: on radio, no one can see you blush"), and generally having a grand old time while on the air. After discovering a bunch of never-played records in the basement one day, I started using "Fish Heads" as my intro. Got away with that for about a week as the station manager was on vacation.

Alas, all good things gotta come to an end (mind, I entirely agree--the salary STINKS) and so, despite the fact that my antics had nearly doubled the average listening audience (ok....for 250 or so to 400 or so....) I was eventually replaced by a guy who would "just play the list". I did at least manage to take my copy of "Fish Heads" with me....and got an A for the escapade as Independent Study.

"We're coming up on the top of the hour, which means ABC News, so you might as well take the trash out as it probably hasn't changed much since last time. When you get back.....I'll be back. B-y-y-y-y-e-e-e-e!"

Can't for the life of me remember if I ever played anything by Janis, though I do vaguely recall seeing a tape of "At 17" in the rack at least once.

[ponytail]

I discovered that Gene Shay, who I mentioned in my last post on this thread, still has a Sunday night folk show in Philadelphia -- and I can even hear it here. And best of all -- HE'S PLAYING JANIS! He's on WXPN Sunday evenings from 8 to 11. His playlist for last week included "The Great Divide,"and "Folk Is The New Black." The station can be heard in Philadelphia, Harrisburg and Baltimore. If anybody would like to check him out, his website is at

http://www.geneshay.com

[Eva]

As Janis always says: send him a mail to let him know you appreciate it.

Eva

[Judy]

I agree completely, Nitejet/Ralph. It was nearly unthinkable for such things to be said aloud, much less, filtering through the radios in 1965. Just think of the controversy of "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner?" and that was made two years AFTER Janis' skillful and courageous song. She shook the country in it's boots and the country responded with black-balling her on the airwaves. It, indeed, WAS incredible for the time.
Judy

[janisian]

Folks, the bottom line is that more and more stations are owned/operated by Clear Channel (who also have a booking agency, promotion arm, etc - and where the hell is the Rico Act when you need it?!) Clear Channel has a very simple methodology - play what you're paid to play, and people will buy it. Because people buy what's familiar.
Along those lines, I see that the various big record companies have spent about $15 million dollars settling suits brought by Eliot Spitzer for payola.
So look at it this way. (I do!) If I had 20 million dollars to promote my records, I'd be the biggest artist in America, with more airplay than anyone else. Since I don't, I'm not, and that's okay. Because the airplay I get is honest; it's from people who actually like my work.

[hoops]

so true so true, Janis and your fans seem to always be your fans...that's a big thing in the times in which we live.
peace
Hoops

[nitejet]

First of all the ARBITRON quarter hour ratings methodology...which means that if you can control five minutes of any quarter hour, you get credit for the whole quarter hour...so...program directors started "stacking" commercials into huge pods at :37 after the hour...a ten minute commercial string...that is just AWFUL for the listener.

Secondly, playlists got VERY VERY short...like 40 to 100 songs in rotation which quickly "burns"...and listeners lose interest...

I am one of those big voiced mellow baritones...a big market radio personality that made a LOT of money as a jock and a program director and later general manager...I now own a production company and do radio and television voice overs...I do the voice part of the commercials.

Some stations now have tried to correct the problem with the "Jack" formats..."Ben" "Ted" whatever...some of these do not even have jocks talking anymore...they are trying to compete with XM and such.

As for ME I want a jock...sharing the songs with me...opening the phone line up and letting me share what I want to contribute about the love songs...about broken hearts...about any number of things...and playing a huge variety of great stuff that you would never hear on a Clear Channel or Infinity "formula" station...

Radio sucks...but I miss the times when it was good, really good...and fun!
My God we had fun! Radio today is as limp as kissing my sister...LOL
Love but no passion...ok? LOL uh...ok...on the lips but no tongue...ok?
LOL

Janis...we need Society's Child...playing on a hot FM on a hot summer night and we need to set our watches back to like 1969 or so...when FM was a monster...and the music was just superb...Lovin' Spoonful...summer in the city...so many great songs of that era...but the monster song...was absolutely Society's Child...what a kickin' song...so many memories...good social commentary...excellent instrumentation...and Janis's crystal clear voice...like a fine merlot...ooozing out the speakers...just superb on every level...God I love that song...

Maybe we will turn radio around again and put the fun back into it...I hope so.
I love the listeners and have felt that we have been cheating them for decades more and more...I apologize...I know radio could be better...I'll work on it.

[nitejet]

Folks, the bottom line is that more and more stations are owned/operated by Clear Channel (who also have a booking agency, promotion arm, etc - and where the hell is the Rico Act when you need it?!) Clear Channel has a very simple methodology - play what you're paid to play, and people will buy it. Because people buy what's familiar.
Along those lines, I see that the various big record companies have spent about $15 million dollars settling suits brought by Eliot Spitzer for payola.
So look at it this way. (I do!) If I had 20 million dollars to promote my records, I'd be the biggest artist in America, with more airplay than anyone else. Since I don't, I'm not, and that's okay. Because the airplay I get is honest; it's from people who actually like my work.

And you're right, Janis...but there is a group of broadcasters called The Conclave...and we are having a conference in Minneapolis this month and we DO care about the vertical integration of radio in the hands of four companies...that scares me awfully...Clear Channel owns 60% of all adult contemporary stations...(Rock)...and in the top 50 markets...they rule...
That bothers me...

It's big business...I want radio to be the place where artists can get their songs heard and to the people...I think that you will see this situation improve pretty quickly...broadcasters are working on it...some of us still care deeply about YOU, the listeners, the advertisers...AND the industry. A LOT of us present and former executives in radio are NOT happy with how it has become...we're trying to fix it.

We KNOW what radio is supposed to sound like...we know it's not right...some of us really care.

[nitejet]

College kids...people that loved music...I was one of them! I found a career, and many do work their way up through the markets and make serious money...it's much like the music recording business in some ways...

Now 80% of all radio stations are owned by less than 10 companies...and they "voice track"...one jockey on seven stations in the cluster...basically no entry level jobs for college kids anymore...that makes me really angry!

Radio belongs to ALL the people! The Federal Communications Commission in 1996 ripped the heart and soul out of radio...by deregulation...because in 1996, there were thousands of individuals and small companies that owned all the radio stations...and they had live, real people working in them...

12,000 mid level program directors and announcers were fired in just a few years...pretty amazing! If I tick Clear Channel off...I just lost 1200 possible clients...for voice over work...ok?

Ponderous...really ponderous! I am not sure that I like them or not...LOL

[DaveM]

Radio was once fine dining....now it is, at best, McDonald's. And you can tell Rupert Murdoch I said so.

Quite agree about the RICO Act, Janis. The "payola" scandals of the 50s were penny-ante compared to what goes on now as "standard business practice". As "American Idol" and the like have proven, there will always be another disposable bubblehead (or quartet of same) to ram down the ears of the American listener.

Your problem, Janis, if indeed it can be called such, is that you are not, and never could be, disposable. Long after people are saying "Britney who?" your name and music will be going strong. Mind, the sort of money the disposables haul in during their six week careers would be nice....

It's very strange, and sad, to think that in today's world, in fields for which the criterion for success has traditionally been sheer talent, one can be overqualified.

[Jim in Chattanooga, TN]

I too was an on-the-air personality for ahwile. It disturbs me that today's radio formats are so narrow-minded and that continuously brilliant works by Janis, Paul Simon, Kris Kristofferson and others who are either considered "too old" or not "hip enough" are going unnoticed. The people listening to radio today have no idea what they are missing!

[Eva]

I have no idea how these things are in the Netherlands. I do know that when I was a child (in the seventies) I used to listen to the radion a lot with my brother who is 6 1/2 years older than me. There was so much good music on and some of the presentors were really good. I have always stayed a fan of Frits Spits who did his "Avondspits" somewhere in the seventies / beginning of the eighties. (I could be wrong about the exact era) I am certain the Dutch Rudies know him.

Nowadays I hardly listen anymore. It's the same music everywhere with the 'biggest hit' of the moment on every whole hour. Although sometimes some small station or a local station might have something interesting. Something the presentor likes. Something listeners ask for. I try to listen to those if I can find them. (Any suggestions for me Dutch Rudies???) But most of the time I just listen to my CD's and LP's. At least I know then that I will hear something that I am in the mood for.

Eva

[nitejet]

The payola dealie dalley is alive and well in corporate radio...My God, Clear Channel owns 1200 radio stations and a promotions company...10% of all stations and 60% of all contemporary hits stations...four other companies complete most of the rest...a 34% reduction in individuals or small group operators...along comes the consultants...who do things in a very bizarre way...not to communicate better with listeners...but to "get better cume in ARBITRON! That is why you have those huge commercial sets...all in one quarter hour.

Radio is pathetic...I was a very GOOD big voiced professional...one damn fine radio announcer...then the FM "suits" decided that only mornings should have live talent...it got so much worse...they decided that big voiced jocks had to go...so I moved into management and the sales and promotions side of the business, became a General manager...and the owners and consultants...decided that the pre-pube girlie boy should be the primary "bite me" radio voice...YUCK!!!

I had a great career, made a lot of money, worked for some nice companies...and then went off on my own...I do television voice overs now...
Stop by my website!

www.ralphallen.net

Send me an e-mail...your thoughts on radio...I still work hard in some groups to improve it...radio is so awful to my "ear" these days...but maybe there is some hope...

Radio is a very PERSONAL relationship between a jock and a listener multiplied thousands of times...the music...the way it's presented...is critical to that "listener experience"...to do it well from the disc jockey end...you have to spend some time learning the craft...

Today's jocks are busy thinking outside the box...few of them have ever BEEN inside the box...you cannot be a fricking race house until you learn to walk straight...ok?

Radio so fricking sucks...just about everywhere...clueless torgs...managing uninteresting content ad nauseum...same "plastic" groups...all sound the same...national playlists...while beautiful music goes un heard on radio.

Janis...amazing talent...so many of similar artistic excellence...with no chance to get radio play...

makes me sick...no more weenie jocks...girlie pipes...if I want a girl...voice on the air, I'll get a girl voice! That being said...there is no place for a big voiced baritone in today's radio...so much I want to say...so many songs that feed my very soul, I want to share with an audience...and I can't! I want to talk...share...the great artist's music...presented properly...with warmth...integrity...no huckster FM crap...

This is that was, before them, this...(Please spare us all from that!)

Ralph Allen

[DaveM]

I did a brief stint as an "on-air personality" at a radio station with an audience of 250-500. What started as a work-study thing doing an hour of music and announcements for the local community college turned into (briefly) a full shift when one of their "real" announcers quit unexpectedly. I know I never played "Society's Child" but may well have spun "At 17" once or twice.

The job lasted until the end of the quarter....I'd hoped they might keep me on, but my habit of opening the show with "Fish Heads" and some of my wisecracks were a bit much for the station manager. Their loss....the number of listeners actually went up a bit for my show.

[aabram]

A warm welcome Nitejet, and Patrick.......... from Auld Reekie :)