Mandolin-Banjo: Can Anyone Help?

[Oak Kitten]

I have to end my self-imposed exile from the JIMB briefly to see if anyone might be able to offer some amplifying information about this interesting instrument.

(Please do not ask me anything about the situation that led to my absence from the board since January. It is still not resolved, and until it is I have no public comment.)

Now, to business. Mr. Oak brought home this interesting instrument. It belongs to a Dutch couple who have a boat a few slips away from us. The woman who owns it has had it since childhood, got it from her grandfather. I had never seen anything like it, so of course I had to do some research. I have figured out that it is a Mandolin Banjo. They were popularized in Europe by Minstrel bands in the late 19th to early 20th century. This one was made by Marius. I was only able to find a couple of pictures of Marius mandolin banjos on the web, and they are obviously much newer instruments. This one looks like a real antique, and I think it may be quite valuable. The woman who owns it asked John to fix it up for her, and I thought it would be prudent to find out as much as possible before he did anything to it, lest its value be diminished. So those of you who are into collecting instruments, what do you think?

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c70/rbalano/MandoBanjo1.jpg

It is only 21 inches long (sorry for the non-metric measurement)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c70/rbalano/MandoBanjo2.jpg


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c70/rbalano/MandoBanjo3.jpg


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c70/rbalano/MandoBanjo4.jpg


I should note that the back of the instrument is closed, and there is a silver glittery contact paper-like substance that I am reasonably sure was probably applied much later.

Appreciate any insight you may be able to provide.

Oak

[Oak Kitten]

Here is the manufacturer's mark. I exceeded the four-image limit in the first post.

Oak

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c70/rbalano/MandoBanjo5.jpg

[dragonlady]

I can't help much with the research part but I can say it is rather unique looking...rather beautiful. I wonder what it sounds like? I bet it has an interesting voice...

Good luck with the research...

Hope to see you at one of the VA shows in November, Oak. You have been greatly missed.

-di

[janisian]

Okay, I got an alert from Judy.
Hey, before anyone touches what could be an antique - valuable or no - and before someone who possibly doesn't know how to work with antique instruments possibly messes things up - let me ask a few friends in the luthier and repair business, as well as a friend or two at Christie's and Sotheby's!!!
Thanks
Janis
ps feel free to email me directly.

[DaveM]

Oak--I can't tell you a thing about the maker and this is the first of these I've seen with eight strings. However, very similar instruments with four strings were sold as "banjolins" (among several other names) by a number of companies during the period when minstrel shows and similar acts were popular. I have seen them here and there over the years (and am guessing that there are any number on eBay and the like), usually instruments which appear to be 1920s vintage or so--yours appears to be far older--but they certainly aren't "common". I've heard them played tuned variously as a mandolin or a tenor banjo/tenor ukulele. The majority of those I have seen have had a metal "shell"--guessing yours is wooden under the contact paper?

Based on the rather "basic" styling of your instrument, I believe it was mass-produced. However, mass-produced 100 years ago certainly does not equal widely available today, and of course does not mean low quality.

Janis is 100% right on anything of this age. Don't touch it before having someone with some background in antique instruments have a look at it. Doing so might cost a few dollars, but the dividends in peace of mind and the eventual condition of the instrument should be many times that! And you never know.....you just might have that find of a lifetime of which every treasure hunter dreams.

Thanks for sharing this....it's fascinating to be able to have a look!

[DaveM]

A p.s. and a correction--"banjolins" do indeed have eight strings if eBay is any indicator (no idea what the four-string models I have seen are called now....). They were made by a number of manufacturers including Gretsch and Gibson, and are still sold under the Tyler Mountain brand. Those that are presently offered on eBay appear for the most part to have larger headshells, and some of those appear to be of some age. You almost certainly have a true antique.

[Bat]

I have had a couple banjo ukes, which have 4 strings, and are miniature banjos. I had a friend who had an 8 string uke which is called a tipple. But I've never seen an 8 string banjo uke, or banjomandolin...it should be very interesting to hear the follow-up on this unique little gem! Keep us in the loop, Oak and Janis!

[DaveM]

Bat--that's what I was thinking of, a banjo uke. Why the name escaped me so completely....well, I never could get the hang of Tuesdays.

[Amy in Vermont]

I have a "mandolin- banjo", 8 strings, no resonator. This one seems to have a resonator. I have a smaller, 4 string Banjo-Uke, with nylon strings. A Tiple, as mentioned by Bat, usually has 10 strings and would have a wooden top, not a skin head.

There in ends my expertise. While this may be an antique, I doubt that its valuse is particularly great, judging by what I have see. That being said,the less one does to muck with old stuff, the more its worth. In the case of instruments, tho, some times ya gotta to make 'em playable.

Good info here : http://www.banjolin.co.uk/banjolin12/

[Oak Kitten]

Thanks Janis, you rock - even if you are a folk singer.

The wooden body surrounding the resonator is thick, a little over 1/2." It appears to be some sort of laminate - not solid. When I first looked at it, it seemed so crude I thought it was home-made, but that is part of its charm.

Oak

[janisian]

I looked at the conversation on your web site. Banjos are weird instruments, not always popular with the neighbors. Tim O’Brien says he went to the post office & left his banjo on the back seat of his car. When he got back to the car, the window was smashed & there were 2 banjos on the back seat. Banjo-mandolins are arguably the least popular of banjos. Of course banjo-ukes give them a run for their money, so it’s pretty much of a toss up. The problem is finding some music that would sound better with the addition of a banjo-mandolin. I’m drawing a blank. No matter how old it is, I don’t think that there’s a lot of demand for the things. Checking E-Bay is not a bad idea. A local instrument dealer might also be able to shed some light on the subject.

[Agnes]

Hi Oak,

I've just posted a link to this thread on the While & Matthews Facebook site. They do play both banjo and uke, maybe they have some knowledge to share. They're very busy touring though, so I'm not sure when they'll see my note.

[Bat]

Louisville Mandolin Orchestra


Antique Gibson Banjo-Mandolin pictures from antiques photos on webshots


Outstanding Antique 8 String Mandolin Banjo 1910-1930's - eBay (item 380154834748 end time Oct-01-09 14:49:19 PDT)

Aha. Looking a little farther, I see you have put out a posting on these pages, so you've seen all this stuff.
Good luck!

[Oak Kitten]

I looked at the conversation on your web site. Banjos are weird instruments, not always popular with the neighbors. Tim O’Brien says he went to the post office & left his banjo on the back seat of his car. When he got back to the car, the window was smashed & there were 2 banjos on the back seat. Banjo-mandolins are arguably the least popular of banjos. Of course banjo-ukes give them a run for their money, so it’s pretty much of a toss up. The problem is finding some music that would sound better with the addition of a banjo-mandolin. I’m drawing a blank.

Perhaps banjos are like lawyers - everyone hates them until they NEED one.
I will be hanging out with a bunch of historians and museum people in the next two weeks, maybe I can find someone with an "in" with a curator at the Smithsonian.

And now, about that shoebox full of 1933 gold double eagle dollars I found in my attic . . .

Oak