Gender Benders

[Oak Kitten]

I am taking a break from my self-imposed exile from the JIMB while finishing my dissertation. Something happened at work today that was fascinating that I want to share. The Commanding Officer held a “Town Hall” meeting to talk about improving internal communication within the command. The new CO is one of the most impressive people I have ever encountered. He is amiable, well-read, articulate, a great writer and a truly inspirational individual who treats everyone with regard and respect. He gave this great talk in response to concerns that were raised in response to an internal command survey. He talked a lot about the “big picture” and reinforced to the military and civilian personnel the importance of the work we do. At the end of his talk, he opened the floor to questions. At one point, a female civilian employee asked, “I hear that you are going to allow a man to use the ladies’ room.” There was this stunned silence, as most of the audience pondered, “What the %#^&??!” It was so completely out of context with everything that had transpired up to that point. Anyway, after a pause, the CO explained that there was a male civilian employee who has been at the command for some years, who is in the final stages of a sex change procedure. The CO further explained that in today’s society it is accepted that there are some women who are trapped in men’s bodies, and men trapped in women’s bodies, and that these individuals have the right to live as they choose. Then he said, “I can appreciate the fact that some of you may have some concerns about this, and I will be happy to talk to you about those concerns. This was my decision to make, I made it, it was the right thing to do, and I am not going to change it.” About half the audience (mostly the civilians) burst into applause. One other woman whined about it, but the CO cut her off and said he’d be happy to talk to her individually after the meeting.

I was so damned proud of this guy! He did not make any stupid jokes, he was very forthright about the issue, and even though it should not have been brought up in the context of a town hall meeting, he dealt with it perfectly.

What really fascinates me however, is WHAT are these women afraid of? What sort of horrors do they think await them in the ladies’ room, where everyone conducts their business in private stalls? It is said that the mark of a mature intellect is the ability to tolerate ambiguity, but ambiguity surrounding sex and sexuality just seems to throw otherwise smart people into a complete tizzy. I just hope that the fact that these women felt it necessary to air their insecurities in such a public forum is not going to make things too difficult for the transsexual person. At least the CO has the guts to stand up there and say this is the right thing to do and since he commands wide respect – not just for his rank but for his true leadership qualities – I don’t think anyone will dare go out of their way to cause trouble.

Oak

[Agnes]

That certainly is worth applauding for. I like people who are not afraid to stand up. Good choice of words too!

What's your dissertation about, Oak?

[dutchcloggie]

*claps wildley*


Very good man indeed.

The only problem I can see with men/transsexuals/gender benders with male genitalia using the same toilets as women is lifting the toilet seat.

I HATE when someone pees on the seat. So if all men were to sit down, I have no problem with unisex toilets.

Unfortunately most men can not be trusted with this responsibility (ever smelt the men's room???)

But if this person is really a woman deep down inside, there should not be a problem with understand women's issues with toilet seats;)

Seriously.......that was an impressive thing to say. Also, this person is not a man but a woman in a male body. So as far as I am concerned, it is a woman.

[KarenSews2]

[QUOTE=dutchcloggieI HATE when someone pees on the seat. .[/QUOTE]

I cannot figure out how women manage to pee all over the seat! But, further, I can't understand why they wouldn't clean up after themselves!

When was the last time you "saw" anything in the ladies' restroom? As stated before, everything takes place in the privacy of a stall. Are these women afraid of someone seeing them wash their hands, comb their hair or put on lipstick?

And, well put, dutchcloggie; a woman trapped in a man's body is a woman.

Oh, and while I'm at it, what DO women find to do in the stall for SO LONG?Especially when I'm standing cross-legged on the other side of the stall door!!
:confused:

[Eva]

Oak Kitten, I am glad this CO takes his job so seriously.
Karensews, why it takes some women so long? Have you seen what some women wear? Tights, several layers of cloths, etc. That only looks and feels good if it's in place and that takes a while. Jeans and a shirt are easy, but it's not what everyone wears. :)

Eva

[snakegrl]

Well put Dutchcloggie, on everything you said. I could not agree more.
I do not have any problem at all with a transgendered person using the women's bathroom.
I do understand some women who have a fear of this, however.
Public restrooms are good places for predators to lay in wait. That is why some restrooms have automatic lights that activate when the door is opened.
Myself,as well as a lot of other females were told by our mothers to check out public spots before going in.
Also, there is the general fear of males and for good reason.
It is my understanding that here, in Kentucky, the # one reason a woman goes to the emergency room is because a man put her there.

But, besides those possibilities as to reasons why some women complained, most likely there were some who were just plain puddin'headed.

[Oak Kitten]

Agnes,

The title of my dissertation is: "At the Tip of the Trident: Integrating Women into the Fleet." It started out as a contemporary historical study, but as I got into the existing literature, it raised more questions that answers about how things happened the way they did, so I ended up going all the way back to WWI, when women were first enlisted into the navy, and working my way up to the point when the combat exclusion laws were lifted in 1994. I just finished the last chapter a couple of days ago, and the last chapter deals with the navy's lesbian witchhunts in the 1980s and 90s and their attempt to blame the accident in the gun turret of the battleship USS IOWA on a sailor whom they claimed was involved in a gay relationship with another sailor. (There was no basis for for any of these, except virulent misogyny and homophobia). So I was particularly sensitized to these sorts of issues when this transsexual issue came up. It is very heartening to see how much progress the navy as an organization has made in the last twenty years. That's not to say there is not still ample room for improvement.

As to the wet toilet seat issue. This is caused by the prissy ladies who "hover" over the toilet seat as opposed to sitting down. They are so concerned about getting germs on their precious tushies that they spritz the seat and then leave it so whoever comes in behind them is victimized. SIT DOWN, dammit!

Where I work everyone has to have Top Secret security clearance just to get in the door, so there is not much likelihood of criminal assault taking place in a restroom or anywhere else. Everyone has to undergo a very detailed background investigation every five years. Which is yet another reason why these women have no reason to fear this transsexual person.

Oak

[Wildflower Fever]

I'm not defending the morons who questioned the trans-gender's access to the restroom, I just think I know why they are concerned. It's the male-female problem that has always existed, it's a closed and sometimes private place and all they see is a man who might have an easier time attacking them. This while not taking into consideration the man may not be interested in women, and/or even if they were wouldn't necesarily attack them. This is a frustrating problem for me in other circles. I live in a large city, and when I'm out walking somewhere, can't even politely nod to women as they pass. I'm friendly, and would never ever hurt a woman, or anyone else for no reason, yet I understand that the bad people have poisoned it for me. I'm also six feet six inches tall and weigh 245 lbs. No tears for me please, but this can sometimes make me feel like a monster when I'm simply acknowledging someone's presence, and they just see a monster who may attack. Sometimes I just want to say, "I mean no harm, could you please just nod back?" The scumbags in society make it harder on all of us. That's just my two bits.:(

[hoops]

hmmm, i wonder if lesbians allow their male friends to use the toilet in thier homes??
Of course i am being silly. But when it comes down to it, it's just a danged bathroom for goodness sake. I can see, to a small degree, the fear of possibly being attacked in a public rest room, but i also know that if someone wants to attack someone else they will find a way. And, if you've ever been in a women's rest room , you will find that they are NEVER empty, in fact there is usually a line to get in, so any man that might attack would hhave a tough time getting past all those women.
peace
hoops

[Margay]

I always use the uni-sex toilet (disabled) and it is really nothing to be afraid of. :D

Seriously, in my walking days I was notorious for using the men's room whenever there was a line waiting outside the ladies' room. No way I am gonna stand in line to pee if there are unoccupied toilets just around the corner. I particularly did this at gasstations along the highway, because they are the worst when it comes to standing in line, especially if you are travelling on a bus. Apart from the occasional heart attack suffered by teachers, parents or friends, nobody ever got hurt.

I also love messing with gender. To paraphrase my beloved Virginia Woolf: two sexes are quite inadequate considering the vastness and variety of the world.

[Dee]

Good for your Commanding Officer, Oak!

Proud to say that here on the Canadian side of the border progress is also being made on this matter:

Ryerson University (http://www.theeyeopener.com/storydetail.cfm?storyid=2442) in Toronto Ontario

Members of the Ryerson community are rallying for gender neutral washrooms on campus.

On Nov. 24 RyePRIDE and the Women's Centre held an event to raise awareness about the need for transgender washrooms with a movie screening and panel discussion.

RyePRIDE campaigned for gender-neutral washrooms last year and its education co-ordinator, Jessica Miller, a third-year arts and contemporary studies student, said it's time to raise the issue again.

"We just want to see (gender neutral washrooms) around campus. We want more than one so people won't be a target for violence," Miller said. (more)

McGill University (http://www.mcgill.ca/reporter/36/12/transgender/) in Montreal Quebec

For many at McGill, the seemingly small task of finding a suitable washroom cannot be taken for granted. For those living with disabilities, have small children, are gender variant or transgendered, the undertaking is enough to cause real anxiety.

A student initiative for a barrier-free washroom intends to change this, with plans to build a single-unit, wheelchair-accessible, gender-neutral washroom on the first floor of the student union building, also known as the Shatner Building. (more)

Queens University (http://www.queensjournal.ca/articlephp/point-vol133/issue3/editorials/lead4) in Kingston Ontario

It wasn’t until early June 2005 that transgender washrooms even entered the conversation in regard to the planning of the Queen’s Centre. Since then, there have been mixed opinions expressed about the necessity for such a space in the new complex.

The argument supporting the existence of a gender-neutral washroom is a human rights one. For individuals who fear bashing in washrooms for whatever reason—trans-identity, sexual orientation, privacy etc.—the gender-neutral washroom is a secure place available to them.

Furthermore, for individuals who do not identify with the sex they were born into, every day is a struggle in this society that expects a homogenized agreement upon two distinct gender identities. The gender-specific washroom can be an intimidating and frightening experience for those who are transsexual. As much as we do not wish to believe it, violence exists towards persons who are transgendered/transidentified in gender-specific washrooms and is a prevalent concern. (more)

[KarenSews2]

II was notorious for using the men's room whenever there was a line waiting outside the ladies' room. No way I am gonna stand in line to pee if there are unoccupied toilets just around the corner. I particularly did this at gasstations along the highway,

I have tinkled in my share of men's rooms, too...only mine was mostly in bars!