Melissa Etheridge at the 2008 Democratic Convention

[Mimi]

Trying to calm down my nerves a bit I was browsing youtube and found this video:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=tNgxdQkDcu8

Mimi

[hoops]

that was pretty cool thanks mimi
peace
hoops

[Mary6906]

...... Okay. So Prop 8 passed. Alright, I get it. 51% of you think that I am a second class citizen. Alright then. So my wife, uh I mean, roommate? Girlfriend? Special lady friend? You are gonna have to help me here because I am not sure what to call her now. Anyways, she and I are not allowed the same right under the state constitution as any other citizen. Okay, so I am taking that to mean I do not have to pay my state taxes because I am not a full citizen. I mean that would just be wrong, to make someone pay taxes and not give them the same rights, sounds sort of like that taxation without representation thing from the history books. ....

read the rest here:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-11-06/you-can-forget-my-taxes/

[paularoid]

http://pixftw.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/funny-picture-1096521666.jpg

[hoops]

hmmm, no taxes cause we aren't citizens...that is hitting them where they live.
peace
hoops

[DaveM]

Works for me.

Keep in mind that as a disabled person receiving SSI, I too am not allowed to marry. More accurately, if I marry anyone with any sort of income, it will be deducted from my checks. If my assets combined with the other person's total more than $3,000, I will also lose my medical coverage. When I published a book some years ago and earned $113 in royalties (about the cost of postage and phone calls involved in getting the thing to press), the Social Security Administration took every penny of it back. I will not publish another book or indulge in any activity that generates "on paper" income until this changes.

There are at least 6.5 million people on SSI....seems to me that could amount to a good-sized voting bloc if aroused.

[hoops]

davem, heck yeah!
peace
hoops also on that list of disabled

[DaveM]

Perhaps something like the AARP is needed for people receiving SSI--with a monthly magazine providing tips on how to work the system to the fullest possible benefit. After all, screw unto others as they screw unto you. Taxpayers, do be aware....I spend the money I have very carefully and very little goes to anything that could be seriously considered a luxury.

There are those who call me names because I "sit on my ass and collect welfare". In point of fact, I'd love to work (and do, informally--just "off the record" as far as money is concerned), but I won't work for nothing. I won't save money to buy a $10,000 car when the law says I can only own a $4000 car without being penalized. And I certainly will not put money in the bank when any interest income or even the principal may be held against me should it get "too high"--"too high" is approximately the cost of a week's vacation in Mexico for a couple and probably less than the cost of a trip to Disney World for a family.

Want those 6.5 million people to be, within their abilities, productive members of society again? All you have to do is let them. Don't cut off their health care should their income reach 57% of the poverty level (can anyone on that income get private insurance? Of course not).

During the time I have been on disability, I could, if I had been allowed to work, generated at least a comfortable supplement to my income and probably paid enough in taxes to offset the stipend I receive at present. Instead, I have cost the government at least $250,000, and probably much more over the years, because it's policies require that I be, as far as it is concerned, a worthless welfar recipient.

Which would I prefer? Probably the same thing you would prefer. But I don't expect to see it any time soon. Our present system seems to have some interest in maintaining a permanent underclass, perhaps for no other purpose than to keep social workers employed and give everyone else someone to look down on. It's the only explanation I can come up with, at least.

[hoops]

davem, you know it's true, the disabled and others legitimatly on ssi would probably be first to lose what (very little) they get, if those who pay taxes stop...even though it is something we've already paid into and even though our tiny monthly check is based on what we once made. how can we make those pay who need to for what they have stolen from us?
peace
hoops

[janisian]

You know, I love Melissa's work, and I admire her, but I have to say that the open letter being circulated right now doesn't make any sense. No one is saying gay people aren't citizens. All Prop 8 makes sure of is that we're not allowed to marry under the law in California.

Before feathers get ruffled, of course I disagree. Of course that doesn't make me happy. But refusing to pay taxes because you disagree with the majority vote makes no sense. There are much better arguments, and much more effective.

Plus, whoever refuses to pay taxes will just find themselves in the position Baez was in during the Viet Nam era when she refused to pay; the taxes will merely be withheld by the IRS, and penalties assessed on top of it. Actually, you'd be making them more money that way, in the long run.

The right wing and religious extremists used to say we shouldn't be allowed to marry, then quote from Deuteronomy. After about a decade, they realized too many of us were laughing and saying "Okay, Deuteronomy - let's stone an adulterer! let's stop all men from shaving the hair on their face, or cutting the hair on their heads! For that matter, why don't you marry your brother's wife if your brother dies?!" So they moved on to "The Bible says marriage is between a man and a woman." No one's arguing that their translation leaves a lot to be desired, or that the KJV was specifically translated to enforce the rights of kings, the sovereignty of man over woman... well, I could go on and on.

If you really want this mind-set to change, develop outreach programs to the churches, especially black, and to the Hispanic communities. That's what swung the vote in California, and that's the communities that need to be educated. It is a civil rights issue, and the arguments being used are the same arguments used to say blacks shouldn't be allowed to vote/marry whites/be free citizens. But we're going to have to do better than polemics to make our point, let alone to change minds and hearts.

The "gay movement" fragments itself every time it starts moving ahead. It degenerates into name-calling and bitchiness that has no place in politics. (I am not referring to Melissa's letter here.) We are not organized the way the civil rights movement was. We are not supportive of one another as the civil rights movement was in its early days.

As I have often said, we have no Martin Luther King. We each have to be our own. And sometimes that's just too scattered to accomplish much.

Anyhow. That's my take, anyhow, unpopular as it may be...

[DaveM]

I don't know that anything like this needs a "movement" as much as it takes people to realize that people are people, and as such have both a right and a duty to mind their own business and let others mind theirs.

Granted, that applies to an incalculable number of people, groups, and issues, but the main principle covers it all. Each step we take towards seeing ourselves merely as "people", as opposed to blacks, whites, old, young, blonde-haired, brunette, nearsighted, farsighted, gay, hetero or what have you is a step toward equal recognition of all. Perhaps it takes a "movement" to get peoples' attention, but at the same time, any single issue movement runs the risk of contributing to a terrible trend that has gone on for at least the past half century: that of defining ourselves as "groups" rather than as individuals.

What I'm trying to say is that there is no list of job requirements for the position of "person". And the Constitution of the United States embraces, first and foremost, "We The People". We should live up to those words. All of us. And all of the words, too--which would be a first in American history, but it's long overdue.

When I see two people walking hand in hand, I don't notice what color or gender the hands are. I smile at being in the presence of two people who care for each other. It's a good feeling. I truly feel for those who cannot enjoy it for whatever reason. They're missing out on a lot....and I suppose that only makes them that much more miserable and gives them that much more desire to spread it around.

[hoops]

Janis, interesting point you make. Tracy and i were at a seminar yesterday and the focus were to join as an organized group along the husdon river from upstate to NYC and was to reach out to the community, churches, food pantry's home's for the aged ect, not as LGBTQ people but as people, and by doing this become people, that everyone knows for what we do not who we are. become accepted for our service and become equal in this way. good plan, i think. though, when i think about it, at least with as many lesbians i know, we are all invovled already in all kinds of human services and volunteer organizations. but best to give than to receive.
peace
hoops

[janisian]

Sorry for the late response, but Hoops, I think that's exactly right. By going about our "normal" business at home, in the workplace, in the community, I know Pat and I have changed more minds and gained more sympathy than any amount of electioneering!
Just a thought. And the plus point of that is, you get to do good at the same time!

[hoops]

Janis,
amen.. exactly, everyone wins.
peace
hoops