Crazy Housemate Update

[DaveM]

Some of you may recall my anxiety over my housemate being released from the hospital. Forgive what may seem like hijacking this forum....I now need to vent.

She came "home" and stayed out of the hospital for six days, then went back in claiming she was having auditory, visual, and tactile hallucinations and that voices were telling her to kill herself. She was released after about 36 hours and without so much as seeing her doctor, who was on holiday vacation. That was this past Wednesday afternoon. On returning here she said she'd been hallucinating the entire time but hadn't told anyone.

This evening she freaked out and flew into a rage, literally foaming at the mouth--as is usual (it's happened a number of times before) there was no reason for it. I finally became frightened after she started making threats and called police, who came with an ambulance and took her to the hospital. That was something of a first--in the past she has always told the authorities that I was abusing her in some way and they have told me to leave my home. One of her accusations led to criminal charges against me; on another, she called the Women's Center and they changed all the locks on the house to protect her against her "abuser".

Tonight she stood out in the street screaming obscenities at me while the neighbors looked on. Perhaps the hospital will "get it" this time....or perhaps she will put on her smiley face and save Act 2 under she gets back here. Tonight she has threatened me with a restraining order and with forcible removal from this house (which is in joint tenancy for complicated reasons). What if someone listens to her? It has happened before.

Since 1994 she has been judicially committed twice and faced with it on two other occasions until she signed on the dotted line voluntarily. I have lost track of the number of hospitalizations she has had during that period--it was over 50 as of some years ago. She has accused every male doctor who has seen her during that time of raping or molesting her, in most cases filing complaints against them or attempting to press criminal charges (mercifully, without success). I have in fact warned her current doctor of her history.

All that I have done during that time is provide her with a quiet and safe place to live during a period when the only reasonable alternative available to her was a group home. I have asked nothing other than to be allowed to live my own life, which is pretty innocuous as I think at least some of you will know. This has been my reward.

Aren't there some sort of laws to protect me in a situation of this sort? Am I to be asked to suffer some sort of loss (beyond anything resembling peace of mind) because someone else is psychotic? And what might I be able to do to prevent it?

I am feeling quite lost tonight. Not sure entirely why I am posting it. I guess in the hope that someone will believe me....so few have over the years that there are times when I truly begin to wonder if the fault is indeed mine.

[Bat]

Well, Dave, you might try starting with getting the house in your name only, and then having her committed. I don't have any idea how to begin to do all that, but I assume you would start with a good lawyer. As long as you have all the marbles in the family, there is no reason not to believe you, is there? Having met you, I rather doubt that the fault is yours, except maybe being a nice guy when you should have been a meanie long before this.
I do hope you can get some help along the way, start looking for a good lawyer to talk to, if there is such a thing, who is versed in mental health abuse issues, and start the ball rolling. If you do nothing, nothing will get done, so plan and follow through as best as you can.
Best to you, luck and good results!

[Elliott]

Best of luck to you in this situation.... I am not at all familiar with the details of what's going on here; is this person related to you in some way? Please feel free to vent to me, and if you want we can share some war stories with each other.... Hang in there....

[hoops]

Dave,
i must agree with bat, i think it is time to bring a lawyer in. I believe you would never do any of the things she has accused you of and i think her medical record would prove that. getting legal involved will bring out all heer past hospitalizations and how she has treated male doctors which is a positive thing on your side cause if she does it to docs then she probably, most likely will do it to other men. it will also bring her competency into question, which is to your benefit. when the law gets involved doctors start telling the whole story, they know about her psychotic features whether she tells them or not. but you can;t hold someone just because of psychosis. the truth will come out and some arrangement will be made concerning your housing situation in relation to her, they may suggest that it is best for her to live in psych housing, but that you buy her portion of the house from her. yeah this is gonna cost a bit of money, but i think you said you are already paying most of the bills, if not all. if all else fails tell her you wish to sell your portion of the house to her, you no longer wish to be a home owner and get out as fast as you can. i have been praying for you dave and think about what was going on with this woman over the holidays, i just can't seem to get my memory to work when it comes to asking. i wish you the best of luck
peace
hoops

[DaveM]

I quite agree, Bat. On Monday I will try to talk with her social worker (assuming I can find someone whose name I do not presently know) and also with her doctor. Obviously, due to confidentiality requirements and the like, both will almost certainly be one-way conversations.

I do have an attorney of record, and may also speak to him on Monday. And legally speaking I do have an ace in the hole, though I am reluctant to use it unless absolutely necessary. I have a trust fund, the result of a personal injury settlement of some years ago. She has used money from it for her own use, including a motorcycle for which she placed her name on the title, claiming she did not know better when she filled out the form. That is most likely a criminal matter--however, it will not benefit her health, hence my reluctance. At this point, though, I believe I must place my personal safety first no matter what is required.

My fear stems from the fact that I know this area all too well, and have seen the word of the delusional taken over that of those merely trying to live their lives more times than I can count. As many know, this is far from my first choice for a place to live. Nonetheless I own half a house here and have been doing a reasonable job of living my life. And I lack the physical and financial means to relocate. It would be foolish for me to lose my home over someone who is headed to a group home no matter what--two of the people who came to the house tonight said it was clear she cannot live on her own. But a woman who makes allegations in Minnesota tends to be strongly favored over a man who attempts, no matter with how much documentation, to refute them.

So I wait, in fear and trembling, feeling trapped. But I will act. Rest assured of that.

[Bat]

That's a good attitude, Dave, but you must speak with assurance and make them believe you! You must believe in yourself in order to do that, so don't be hesitant or unsure, but be upfront and positive in your belief that things must change for both your benefits: Her being taken care of, and your own peace of mind. Glad you're going to do something about this. Good Luck!

[DaveM]

I will do my best. I have a friend who works for the area Womens' Center who is familiar with the situation and has worked with men in abusive situations. She may be able to help.

I am considering a restraining order. She made threats tonight which more than meet the criteria, though whether a judge would go along with it I have no idea. My concern is that in the long run that might create more problems than it would solve. However, it would most likely keep her away from me and away from my home, and it's also possible for a judge to order psychiatric treatment as a condition of an Order for Protection.

I do not intend to let go of this house even if it means paying her off (which she offered to let me do while she was in the process of escalating). The resources exist for me to do so. I do not have the physical or financial resources to move to another house, and have no desire to do so, particularly when it will result in this one sitting empty in short order once she goes into some supervised living arrangement. As it is, whatever money I may end up giving her will end up in the pocket of some "assisted living facility" owner, which grates me no end. But if it frees me....I guess it will be money well spent.

I have several of her letters to her doctors and the complaints she has filed against them. Also a copy of at least one letter from one of the doctors involved threatening her with action for harassment. Her medical records at one hospital alone fill two thick volumes--I've seen them. I have copies of earlier records including documents relating to one of her civil commitments. No idea whether any of this will be of any help but I plan to make use of it in any way I can.

It is so completely alien to me to have to "go on the offensive", so to speak. But I must remind myself that I am not a doormat. And that I cannot bear another evening like this one. Nor should I have to. No one should.

[lucille]

Dave, I am aware of the housing and foreclosure crisis in the States at the present, so selling up is probably not an option. However, it could be an ideal time (not knowing your set up) for you to buy her out at the current low housing valuations. I know where you are coming from, and I do believe your story. It will probably be difficult for you to take offensive action as it is not you. But life is short - go for it, and look towards a better time ahead for you. It's time to forget her in order to save your own sanity.

[Dee]

But life is short - go for it, and look towards a better time ahead for you. It's time to forget her in order to save your own sanity.

I hope you find the strength and the resources to end this madness soon, Dave.

She is no longer your responsibility, but you are!

[Amy in Vermont]

Dave:

Get the restraining order, change the locks and buy her out. It's time to free yourself. Seriously.

[Roady]

Sorry you are having to deal with this Dave but even one of the most renowned psych hospitals in the country will commit this type of patient to a locked state hospital if they repeatedly refuse to follow a treatment plan. But they have to be able to prove dangerousness to self or others. I don't know the laws in your state but commitment here is temporarily done by a doctor for 3 days and then for a longer period of time by a judge. So chances are she'll be out in a few day.

As everyone else has said get a lawyer and find a way to get her out of your house legally. I wouldn't use mental illness as a reason for wanting to get rid of her.

[DaveM]

Well, she never follows a treatment plan and is rarely if ever honest with the professionals she deals with. To me the fact that she is "ill" means little beside the fact that she is out of control, borderline violent, and quite out of touch with reality.

When someone makes repeated threats against one's person and property, isn't there a point at which some sort of action can be taken? She's put me in jail twice by merely alleging that I said or did something threatening (and I am by far not the only person she has done this to). Shouldn't it work both ways? What places her above the law and any other form of social control?

What about my rights? Surely I have them?

[gisli]

Thanks for the update DaveM.........whatever you decide, that will be the right thing to do............just take good care of yourself.

[Eva]

Take care Dave. Please stand up for yourself. I agree with Bat, Hoops and Amy on this one.

Eva

[Roady]

Dave, I think you "heard" me wrong-I agree with you and the others 100 percent about getting her out. She's not above the law but I bet she knows how to play the system to get what she wants. So just get a lawyer who' has experience dealing with mental illness. Cause if you go to court saying, "I'm kicking her out because she's mentally ill," you'll likely lose.

[DaveM]

Oh yes, I know that, Roady. My only concern in that department is that she simply get some help--for her own safety if no one else's.

As of the moment she has agreed to leave "amicably" in return for some money, which seems a bargain. I still plan to contact the domestic violence center and her social worker merely to protect my own interests. I will also make an appointment with an attorney to get the paperwork attended to.

With any luck, this will shortly be but a bad memory. And those I can live with.

[Oak Kitten]

Geez Dave,

I don't know how you have been able to endure this for as long as you have. My conflicts with my psychotic neighbor are bad enough, I can't imagine having someone like that in my house.

Do you know if there is some county or state mental health crisis action team? I would recommend checking into it. It took me a while to find the one in my county, but they were very helpful to me in telling me what I could do.

The only other thing I can suggest is document, document, document everything in case you end up in court.

If I were subjected to unjust arrest as you have been, I would have gone nuclear a long time ago. Defend yourself! I am sure you have more than enough witnesses in the neighborhood who will attest to her instability. Get that restraining order as soon as you can.

Oak

[hoops]

dave,
thoughts prayers and rudie vibes are all yours my friend. may this situation resolve quickly and may you soon find peace in your home
peace
hoops

[DaveM]

I'm not sure how I managed to handle it all this time. At the time I moved to this area, I was in a rather desperate state, with health and money problems having driven me back to living with my parents, which was never a comfortable situation at best. At first it seemed better than what I was used to, and that was enough.

In 2000, I moved out after becoming sick and tired of it all. That lasted two weeks, after which the roommate informed me that if I did not move back, she would accuse me of molesting a child.

I hope this is over. I will take every step necessary to protect myself, and expect to enjoy the peace and quiet--perhaps I'll finally get that next book written.

Mind, I don't know that she is going to go away so easily. She is likely to find it impossible to find an apartment around here at this time of year. In that case, I will strongly suggest that she check into an assisted living facility she has lived in before and where she'll end up sooner or later anyway (moving eight miles from here is not going to "cure" her).

She is simply not going to be my problem any more--any more than I was ever hers.

[aabram]

Dave, sorry I didn't see this yesterday. Jeeney told me you were having problems, and I hope people are starting to listen to you rather than her now. Take care, and I'm here if you ever need an ear in this tricky situation.

Annabel

[DaveM]

It seems as if people are listening. The hospital wants to keep her for several months, so I presume a commitment is in the offing. Sad to say, by the time they get done with her, she may well not be able to function independently. So in a peculiar way, the problem will solve itself.

[Amy in Vermont]

This is good news, Dave!

I would recommend you change your locks, just in case.

[Dee]

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k267/deemark/Emoticons/applause.gif

That is the best news I've heard today, Dave!

[Eva]

Yay! You're free!!!!!

Eva

[leslie]

I don't know the laws of your state, but in many states what you have been describing would allow you to get a restraining order against her. You may want to consider discussing that possibility with your attorney in case she gets out any time soon.

Leslie

[Judy]

Just curious, Dave, is she a ward of the State or who exactly has her guardianship?
Judy

[hoops]

dave,
it may not seem like it but she might just be getting exactly what she needs. it doesn't always turn out for the worst.
as for you, i am so happy things seem to be looking a bit brighter. i'm still praying and sending rudie vibes.
peace
hoops

[gisli]

Is Thank God and Rudie vibes in order??

[DaveM]

Believe me, Gisli, they're all welcome. And I thank everyone who has offered their support.

I have appointments over the next couple of days with a person from the domestic violation prevention center here and with her social worker. I believe the domestic violence people will have my locks changed at no charge.

I have been informed that a restraining order would most likely be granted should I ask for one. At this point, since she is quite securely locked up and likely to remain so for quite some time, it does not appear necessary. But it is certainly a step I am willing to take should it become so.

She does not have a guardian at this point but if indeed a commitment is in the offing either a guardian or a conservator will likely be appointed.

Some of you know how I feel about abuse of the mental health system and how some people profit from it at the expense of patients. There are, however, times when the "big guns" need to be brought to bear and this appears to be one such.

Again, I thank you all for your words and support over the past couple of days. Let us return to happier things....this is, after all, the Rudie Board--and the Zoo, at that.

[Kath of the Guitar]

Dave, make sure you see a lawyer! REGARDLESS!
{{HUGS}} to ya buddy ;)

[stardust]

Dave, Just a thought. Maybe the restraining order would be a good idea for two reasons. Even though it looks like she'll be gone for a while, it may not be cetain yet. Also, it documents the fact that you were in danger from her, in case you ever need that documentation. Best of luck to you.

[DaveM]

The difficulty with a restraining order is that in order to get more than a temporary one granted, there would have to be a hearing at which she would have to appear. As she is currently locked up and without transportation besides, that's not likely. The court has the power to compel her to appear, of course, but in practice, at this point, it would be time-consuming and very possibly escalate matters.

As of today she has committed herself to a long-term hospital and signed an agreement with them that if she tries to sign herself out before the hospital approves, they will file a commitment petition in court. She's very good at fooling people when she wants to, as I have said, but I don't think anyone is being fooled any more. At any rate, it seems likely that her behavior will improve in some way whether she wants it to or not.

[Bat]

I do hope for both your sakes that she gets the help she so obviously needs.

[DaveM]

I wasn't going to post anything further here, however....

As I mentioned a couple of days ago, she had checked herself into a longterm inpatient treatment program, with supervised living and further treatment to follow. Two months of hospitalization was discussed--this was mentioned by both her counselor and one of her social workers.

When I got home this evening, she had left a message on the machine around nine p.m. She says she expects to be released "early next week". Naturally, this all came too late for me to contact any of my "people".

I am to leave on Wednesday for an important business trip to Texas, a trip which has been planned for months and Joan has been opposed to it from the beginning for reasons I've never understood. Most of her hospitalizations since November have been precipitated by an explosion over the fact that I had the gall to make independent travel plans. She has said repeatedly that if I go on my own she will get a restraining order in my absence and change the locks on the house, etc., etc.

My assumption has long been that as soon as I got back from the trip, everything would be fine (until next time, of course). Now it seems apparent that she's going to act up in some manner, either to stop me from going or make the price of doing so so high as to render the game unworthy of the candle.

I will of course speak with my attorney and advocate right away on Monday morning, but realistically....if the hospital has decided she is no threat and attests to it by releasing her, how much recourse will I have?

Keep in mind you're talking to someone with CFS here. The stress and the added physical activity necessitated by the most recent incident have me emotionally and physically exhausted. It looks to be an interesting week.

[stardust]

Maybe you ought to think about installing a hidden 'nanny-cam' to provide evidence of your innocence after she returns.

[lucille]

Why can't you change the locks?

[Eva]

Maybe you ought to think about installing a hidden 'nanny-cam' to provide evidence of your innocence after she returns.
That would only work if the law allows evidence gathered that way. Does US law allow that? Probably only in certain circumstances because it violates privacy.

Eva

[DaveM]

I believe the Womens' Center (who I have an advocate through) will change the locks for me without any problem.

As for keeping a camera around, I'm working on that too.

My dismay stems from the fact that she has a "contract" with hospital staff not to leave the place until she has proven that she is stable and will not engage in any of her former threatening behavior. Since they were talking about her staying in the hospital for two months, I find it difficult to believe that some major turnaround has taken place in five days. She has a long history of telling people what they want to hear when she has some other agenda and I suspect that the hospital staff has gotten the business--as they have every other time.

And so it goes.

[Bat]

Even if you don't have recourse in a court of law, the nanny cam idea is not a bad one...you could show it privately to the doctors and hospital staff and your attorney, which are the ones who need to see it anyway. As long as it is a private showing to professionals and not posted on UTube, I don't see that it violates anyone's privacy...she's certainly violating yours!

[hoops]

Dave,
is it possible she just thinks she is coming home? maybe she thinks she is fooling the docs. maybe they are playing along to keep her calm. something just sounds fishy to me. either way, you still have my thoughts and prayers
peace
hoops

[DaveM]

I really don't know what to think and to be quite honest...I don't want to spend much time on it any more. Why waste good effort trying to get into her mind when it is so obviously a miserable place?

[aabram]

Dave, I really feel for you in such a situation. I really hope you will be able to get on with your life without having to look over your shoulder all the time soon and I really can't believe she thinks she's getting out of hospital this week :eek: . Best of British over getting the locks changed, Rudie prayers, vibes and the like winging their way across the Pond...

Annabel

[Eva]

I understand you have contact with her social worker and / or doctors? Maybe they know for sure if she comes home or not. If she lies to people to get her way it is very likely she does the same to you. Take care, Dave.

Eva

[lucille]

It's amazing how the so-called "experts" are fooled by their patients.

My mother was in a nursing home suffering from vascular dementia. I wasn't pleased with the treatment she was getting, and had hoped that having her in a home in her home town, she would get lots of visitors. That didn't happen so I decided to bring her to Melbourne where I had been able to get her into a home nearly opposite to where I lived. The doctors made it very difficult for me to get her released, and would not give me an assessment which I needed to show the new nursing home. I couldn't work out why.

I had a pschiatrist friend who agreed to do the assessment for me. He learned from the 'geriatric specialists' that they didn't want her to leave because "she owned FIVE houses and had promised to give them one when she died". . She only owned her own house which I had paid for.

I have to say my friend was amazed at the doctors' lack of expertise, as was I.

[hoops]

lucille, that is just unethical...most docs ( i hope) are not that way.
peace
hoops

[DaveM]

Well, they released her and she more or less admitted to playing games with them to get out today (I am leaving town on Wednesday....does she plan to interfere? Who knows?). Seems cheerful or not but my anxiety level is at the point where I am on the verge of being physically ill. A couple of friends stayed with me much of last evening, one bringing flowers (then I had to worry whether she'd wonder where the flowers came from--she didn't). Two other people have offered me places to stay should she "go off" again. So, I have taken some steps and will take others if need be.

Most likely, if the behavior of the past three months holds, I will return here early next week and she'll be back in the hospital. Right now she's so full of meds that I don't think she cares about much of anything. There was a time when that would have troubled me. It doesn't any more.

[hoops]

good luck dave...rudie vibes thoughts and prayers
peace
hoops