Is feminism dead?

[lucille]

She said

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/12/03/1196530572754.html



and He said

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/12/10/1197135371660.html

[Margay]

No, I don't think feminism is dead. I do think that certain concepts of feminism are (nearly) dead. This woman makes the mistake of appointing women as the 'keepers of chastity' once again.

I think there is more to feminism than meets the eye. It's not about the choises certain women make concerning their sexualities. It is about the possibility for all women to make the choices they want to in all parts of their life. And the awareness among women en men alike that women have the freedom to make their own choices based on their own person instead of an image of 'what a woman should be'.

Margay

[gisli]

Is feminism dead?

Ohhh God I hope so.........it has done enough and has now reached the point that it is more damaging then anything else, both for men and women. The time has come to say enough

PS This point of view is primeraly based on my experience of my homeland. You know what the primary fight of the Icelandic Feminist Group is???? Women Santa Clauses:mad: Give it a rest, when there is nothing else to fight for, leave it to die.....please.

[Judy]

I'm afraid that I think it is dead, Lucille. The word "feminist" has become a snide and sneering chide for the ultra-conservative talk show circuit. It is a hit below the belt for anyone who still believes it to be a real cause. Feminism has become distorted by both sides: by those who make absurd issues over women Santa Clauses and by those who equate feminism with castration. It was a noble and real fight; it did bring about changes in our society that most of the younger people just take for granted; it did make us stronger. I don't know how it came to be what it is today; either dismissed or loathed.
Judy

[DaveM]

I think both of the columnists in question need to check their premises. Clearly, each has a different definition of "feminism" and neither fits well with the original definition of "feminism" back when it was called "womens' liberation".

Unfortunately, one of the major characteristics of our age is to take concepts and turn them into buzzwords with no objective meaning behind them. The hijacking of both "conservative" and "liberal" provide two excellent examples. Neither is employed in a manner even approaching its dictionary definition any more. And both are employed as smears--much as "feminist" often is by radio talk show hosts.

The fact that radio talk show hosts are regarded as a source of anything other than noise by a significant segment of the American public may be the greatest threat to freedom in the modern world.

[Eva]

Everything is as dead as we want it to be. For me it's not dead at all. I call myself a feminist and believe in equal rights. I also believe that if we declare it dead women will loose rights again. Dead? No way. Maybe not as prominent. But not dead at all.

I see where the two people that wrote the articles are coming from. But I don't agree with either of them. At least not the emphasyses they place. One is putting all the emphasys on sexuality / chastity. Margay, I so agree with you there. And the other one is going into her words by telling her that 'hey, there are men too there'. Yes, we know. But that's not what this is about.

Quarelling over who does the dishes in a fairly equal relationship and over santa's gender is in my eyes just silly and very much not the point of feminism. Feminism is not dead. But people seem to be talking about sidelnes and not cores of matters.

Please, forgive me my faulty English. This is a topic very close to my heart. I find it difficult then to express myself in a foreign language.

Eva

[gisli]

Please, forgive me my faulty English. This is a topic very close to my heart. I find it difficult then to express myself in a foreign language.

Eva

As the foreigner here I must say that your English is very good and good is really an understatement, your writing is perfect.....and since this topic is so close to your heart I will be gentle and skip the rascaling bit.

Feminists have divided feminism's history into three 'waves.' The first-wave refers to the feminism movement of the nineteenth through early twentieth centuries, which dealt mainly with the Suffrage movement. The second-wave (1960s-1980s) dealt with the inequality of laws, as well as cultural inequalities. The third-wave of Feminism (1990s-present), is seen as both a continuation and a response to the perceived failures of the second-wave.

......and have as usual been manipulated in the press by news of who should do the dishes etc. kind of takes the real message into the corner.

But an open disgussion on the equality of the sexes is always a good thing and in my opinion this third wave of feminist is failing to do that....

But so you know my first encounter with feminism was reading the book S.C.U.M. by Valerie Solanas and I may just still be polluted by that read....What a slap in the face it was....but maybe understandable, this her point of view when you know what her father did to her.

[Bat]

That's ok, Eva...your English is always very good, and your choice of words is, too. I know how it is when something means a lot and you try to find just the right expression, and it comes much easier after you think about it for a while. That's why I like message boards better than IM or chat rooms.

Sounds like a good topic for an essay contest: What does Feminism mean to me?

Well, it means earning the same pay for the same jobs, no glass ceilings.
Any desired career can be had by either sex, no bias, no turndowns because you're a woman.

You can do anything you want to do, (assuming it's legal).

You can call a guy for a date or just to gab, it's ok, (and they'd probably like it, assuming they like you), same as calling a girlfriend.

Most of all, it is an internal affirmation that we are as good and as smart and as capable as anyone else on the planet, generally, each with our own unique gifts.
When are worth as much to ourselves as we think we ought to be, then others will see us in that light: Worthy of respect, confident, able and willing to take on the world.

[DaveM]

How about an "ism" dedicated to equal rights of opportunity and basic human dignity for all human beings. It could be called "humanism", though that term is already in use in a rather different context.

One of the principle problems with labels is that they can be easily removed from the concept they originally represented and attached to another....or to a fictional construct. With time, the original meaning becomes all but lost.

For some reason Margaret Atwood's name pops into my head. She is a feminist. And a humanist. And a genius. And in her hands, the words will never lose their meaning.

[Margay]

The word "feminist" has become a snide and sneering chide for the ultra-conservative talk show circuit. It is a hit below the belt for anyone who still believes it to be a real cause.

Trying to reclaim the word I usually put on my résumé that I identify as a feminist.

Margay

[Margay]

How about an "ism" dedicated to equal rights of opportunity and basic human dignity for all human beings.
You know Dave, I think most young feminists I know see equal rights, equal opportunity and dignity as the basic values of feminism.


For some reason Margaret Atwood's name pops into my head.
Atwood's great! I love 'The handmaid's tale'

Margay

[DaveM]

The Handmaid's Tale is a wonderful warning against the possible results should those who stand up for equal rights ever be silenced.

I had a very brief meeting with Margaret Atwood ages ago at a book signing after a public reading from "The Robber Bride". She signed my First Edition "Handmaid's Tale", then grabbed one of my hands. "You write, don't you?" she asked (I was using a manual typewriter at the time and am guessing that my fingertips were flattened). I said I did and she smiled. "Keep it well," she said. It was a truly magical moment.

[Oak Kitten]

Feminism is not dead. There are different kinds of feminism. Political feminism is what gets the right-wing bloviators all bent out of shape. Frankly, I have some problems with feminist theory, which seems to me often to be a set of unexamined and untested assumptions about pervasive male oppression that is unsupported by any real data.

I consider myself to be a practitioner of applied egalitarian feminism, as opposed to theoretical political feminism. I am the primary wage earner in my house. I am OK with that as is the hubby. He cooks, does the dishes, etc. If I could only get him to clean the litterboxes, he'd be perfect!

Anyway, the female columnist is full of crap. She is inventing a "crisis" and being deliberately provocative because she could not think of anything else to write - not that journalists EVER do things like that. Feminism never promised to liberate women from their own stupidity. If they want to strip and pole dance - it's a free country. I hardly think it is a major cultural crisis.

Oak

[hoops]

oak,
i agree, among the many rights we have is the right to be stupid...this is a right that needs rethinking. as far as feminism, i've never liked that word, makes it sound like we need right to be feminine, if that were true there would never be a drag queen out in public...i'm kidding of course, but still the idea that we need a right to be women doesn't sounds kosher. i'm with humanism...i like that one best, we all have the right to be the human that we are.
peace
hoops

[gisli]

oak,
...humanism...i like that one best, we all have the right to be the human that we are.
peace
hoops

Now there I agree....lets call it humanism.

[lucille]

As for "isms", I don't think either of them have taken any "journalism" courses. I just thought I'd post them and see your reactions. :D

[gisli]

..........I just thought I'd post them and see your reactions. :D


He, he, he, he, ha,ha,ha,ha,........Me thinks we just got ourselfs another rascal out of the closet.:cool:

[DaveM]

I think Lucille just might be pirate material!

[RedjackRyan]

He, he, he, he, ha,ha,ha,ha,........Me thinks we just got ourselfs another rascal out of the closet.:cool:

not sure that rascal was ever in the closet.. she's been stirrin the pot since day one :D

[hoops]

lucille is a full fledged smarta** and i love her for it
peace
hoops

[leslie]

You don't know the half of it! :D

Wait until you meet her in person!

Leslie

[hoops]

leslie,
i'm looking forward to it. as i remember PK Owen was quite the sharp tongued master of sarcasm. I miss PK. can't wait to meet all my rudie friends
peace
hoops

[gisli]

The thing is........everytime I hear the name "feminist", I jump up into my nose.......and now she knows it.:eek: One amo she accomplished.....she is :cool: .

[Chet]

Feminism, according to Isabel Allende, is not dead. Watch her share about the different brave faces of feminism in the video linked here:
Isabel Allende: Tales of passion (http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/204)

The video is just over 18 minutes long, and the portion on feminism begins from around 10 minutes 30 seconds.

I was very moved to hear what she had to share.