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View Full Version : (Politics) By Gore Vidal "On the Democratic Debate Debacle"



paularoid
12-22-2007, 12:54 AM
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/12/20/5910/

Published on Thursday, December 20, 2007 by TruthDig.com
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20071218_whither_dennis_kucinich/

On the Democratic Debate Debacle
by Gore Vidal

I don’t know how many of you were as appalled as I was at the way that the presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich was totally erased from the last Democratic debate held in Iowa. This was a decision that was made, I can tell, jointly by the one-time voice of AIPAC, Mr. Wolf Blitzer, and, at the same time, The Des Moines Register-or whatever it is called-a paper of no consequence for the United States of America.

Elements of right-wingism are keeping his voice from being heard, even though there are many millions of us (Kucinich is ahead of both Biden and Dodd in the national polls) out here who like to hear his voice. He is in the great tradition of the original People’s Party of the 1880s; he is in the tradition of George Washington and of Thomas Jefferson, and to silence him with a bunch of political hacks who have made such a mess of our political system, pretending these were the only voices who could talk as presidential candidates … is it because of their campaign budgets?

Now, I know, as all of you know, that people can come in with millions of dollars, like Romney and so on, and can buy time in Iowa and in the North Pole or wherever it is they are running. They can buy it, but to get an honest member of Congress speaking out for the people of the country is a great and rare thing.

I have listened to many political debates in my lifetime, if I may pull rank because I have been around longer than anybody else, and here is a voice not only against the war but the entire course leading us to it. I haven’t heard anybody who has ever listened to Kucinich who didn’t say, “Oh yes, yes, what he says is true, but nobody will ever take him seriously.”

Well, of course nobody will ever take him seriously, because they won’t let him on TV to stand side by side with the other candidates-some of them attractive candidates but whose roots are not as deep as his in what we may call “American life.” Dennis Kucinich was brought up in poverty, something the other candidates talk about but he actually lived through. He has known poverty in the richest country on Earth, a country that is constantly boasting, that seems to be out of control with self-love. Well, I say let’s have less self-love and pay some attention to our serious critics-and he is one-and his is a voice that’s showing us how to get to the exit from the box that we are all in.

It is so typical for CNN, a lousy network, and whatever that awful newspaper is called. Do we want to listen to them at the close of a primary campaign in a key state? They have nothing to say of any interest, and so they eliminate any voice that might say something intelligent. I have never felt more ashamed being an American than when I saw how this debate was handled.

National Book Award winner Gore Vidal has written twenty-three novels, five plays, many screenplays, short stories, well over two hundred essays, and a memoir.



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mixtymotions
12-22-2007, 01:48 AM
http://www.dennis4president.com/

Includes a Take The Test link - See which candidate Democrat or Republican comes closest to representing your views on 25 key issues.

Dennis Kucinich wins hands down.

lucille
12-22-2007, 02:19 AM
After the Festivas, I will comment on the political system in the US. It has to be unique by world standards. From a party's point of view, it is hardly 'united we stand, divided we fall'.:confused:

DaveM
12-22-2007, 12:11 PM
The U.S. system is not the system it claims to be....a weird example of Doublethink in action.

I took the test and it claims that "Gravel" best fits my ideas, followed closely by Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul. I have no idea who Gravel might be, and wouldn't vote for Ron Paul at gunpoint, so I guess Dennis takes the banner.

Mind, there are so many "unknowns" that came up in the results that it's almost a Rorschach test.

paularoid
12-22-2007, 04:21 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25/paularoid/JIMB/defend_the_constitution.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25/paularoid/JIMB/BT15613-2.jpg



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hoops
12-22-2007, 07:46 PM
shoot, me and Mr kucinich only disagreed on one point. hmm
peace
hoops

paularoid
12-23-2007, 12:51 AM
Even if Kucinich has a checkered past (I'm diggin' into that right now) the whole point is that NO CANDIDATE* from ANY party should be deliberately excluded from ANY debate. If they're a "nutcase" then let them show themselves as such to the American voters so the voters can see for themselves who the "nutcase" is and why they're a "nutcase" rather than silence them and make them potential political martyrs. We as voters cannot be depended upon to make an informed decision when we are not given the full spectrum of choices to be made.

* whether it be Kucinich or Gravel from the democratic party, Paul or Keyes from the republican party, or even good ol' Larry Flynt of Hustler Magazine fame from who knows what party

Post script - Yes, good ol' Larry Flynt has made it official - again. He's running for president - again. <shudder>



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DaveM
12-23-2007, 01:23 AM
Must say that when Ross Perot appeared in a few debates they were almost interesting to watch. He took all the pre-fab soundbite setup and turned it on its ear. No idea what sort of President he might have made, but he is a character, you must grant him that.

In a strange irony, it is primarily the Larry Flynt school of candidates who are at least honest about why they are running and what they stand for (albeit at times with varying degrees of coherence). I would never have voted for Gus Hall back when he ran in each election. But I have to admire the man for sticking to his ideals and refusing to compromise them.

Of course, I suppose I could say the same of David Duke and the candidates fielded by the Ku Klux Klan and the American Nazi Party. But I cannot admire the ideals of any of these bodies, and give them no points for expressing them honestly. Gus Hall and his ilk may have had some terribly misuided ideas, but I cannot imagine that he meant any malice by any of them. Had he ever been elected....that would have been a different matter.

Some years ago, a fellow from Minnesota ran for President on the Fisherman's Party ticket. His major platform, very tongue in cheek, involved the purpose of government being to insure that everyone had more time to go fishing. But he had one idea that struck me as very good, and that was the replacement of taxes with a national lottery. By his calculations, assuming people bought national lottery tickets, our present government could award someone in each state $1 million each week for less than is presently paid as interest on the national debt. Anything collected above and beyond that would go into the general revenue fund.

We all know how popular various state lottery games are. I cannot help but wonder....would it work? Voluntary taxation by lottery....an interesting concept.

paularoid
12-23-2007, 02:17 PM
I think I remember reading this before quite some time ago but forgot about it,... perhaps by choice. If this is true, then this is the "dirt" on Kucinich. I may have to rethink my position and go with my alternative. I'd post the whole thing but it's long so I'll just give the link:

Cleveland - News - The King of Spin
http://movies.clevescene.com/2007-12-05/news/the-king-of-spin/1

Still, the main point is that NO CANDIDATE from ANY party should be deliberately excluded from ANY debate.

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Randy & Betty in Pa
12-23-2007, 03:18 PM
Well.... All I can say is that I am voting for Mrs. Clinton.... Maybe two or three times... I think Bill was the best President this nation has seen since Ike... Give Lady Clinton a broom and I'd bet she really can sweep up around Washington... One thing is certain... Shes a lot better then those at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. now.....

Best to all

R. from Pa:cool:

Eva
12-23-2007, 04:05 PM
"Democratic Debate Debacle"
Is that a new coffeevariation from Starbuck's? Thet are very creative with their names for the drinks. I remember something frappee frappee.

Eva

hoops
12-23-2007, 05:23 PM
well crap paul, what do i do now? shoot
peace
hoops

paularoid
12-23-2007, 05:36 PM
Well.... All I can say is that I am voting for Mrs. Clinton.... Maybe two or three times... I think Bill was the best President this nation has seen since Ike... Give Lady Clinton a broom and I'd bet she really can sweep up around Washington... One thing is certain... Shes a lot better then those at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. now.....

Best to all

R. from Pa:cool:
While I agree that Bill Clinton was the best President since <insert pres choice here>, I still don't like "Lady Clinton" for that position. I still hold her greatly responsible for the re-election of Lieberman over Lamont and I have NO love or respect for Lieberman or his efforts and by extrapolation (perhaps undeservedly) that gets extended to "Lady Clinton" as well. I'd still take Kucinich or even Gravel over her. Just my opinions and preferences. She might be the greatest things since toilet paper..... but I don't think so. She still strikes me as being a "Bu$h Lite" so to speak.

As for my decision on Kucinich,..... I'm witholding judgment at this point. People can and do change as I well know. I'm not even CLOSE the same person as I was that many years ago that all this "supposedly" happened with Kucinich. We shall see what we shall see. It's not like any of the other candidates have never changed their ways in the course of years. How many accusations of such have been flying back and forth amongst almost all (if not in fact all) of the candidates of both parties?

A person shouldn't necessarily be judged by what they were as much as what they are.