Hi!

[Coffee Roaster]

I'm glad I found this site - I've been browsing the forums and it looks like a terrific group o'peeps.

I first saw Janis around 1977 (okay, I'm dating myself, but I hasten to add that I was but a child at the time - sorta) in Los Angeles. Steve Martin opened for her, strange as that sounds. Great show, and I've been a big fan ever since.

Let's see...I'm a liberal Democrat pissed at my own party and about to go Green...I despise George Bush and his band of Christo-fascists and his warmongering and incompetence and general open-mouthed stupidity...I have two Pomeranians, Guido and Luigi, who *will* attack for pizza, and yeah, I'm a coffee roaster/cupper so I'd be glad to answer any questions about your favorite brew (and why to avoid any and all coffee grown in Vietnam - you'd be surprised at how much of it you're probably already drinking).

Anyway, hiya to all and very glad to be here!

[Chet]

Hey, Coffee Roaster

Welcome to the board! Have you seen Janis in any of her recent shows? Heard her new album? What's your favourite Janis Ian album? Favourite song from the new album? All-time favourite Janis Ian song?

Sorry about all the questions, but I'm a busybody by nature, and love to get to know new boarders and fellow Janis Ian fans.

Turning to your other favourite subject (coffee), have you heard of the I Need Coffee (http://www.ineedcoffee.com/) site?

[Coffee Roaster]

Hey, Coffee Roaster

Welcome to the board! Have you seen Janis in any of her recent shows? Heard her new album? What's your favourite Janis Ian album? Favourite song from the new album? All-time favourite Janis Ian song?

Sorry about all the questions, but I'm a busybody by nature, and love to get to know new boarders and fellow Janis Ian fans.

Turning to your other favourite subject (coffee), have you heard of the I Need Coffee (http://www.ineedcoffee.com/) site?

I last saw Janis at the LAVA awards in San Francisco in 1999 - she gave a terrific speech and sang afterwards. Hopefully she'll be in my new neck of the woods soon and I'll be able to catch a show.

Haven't heard the new album but that's on my list. My favorite album is Between the Lines and my new all-time favorite song changes daily, but I'll always have Society's Child and Jesse on my top ten list.

I've been to that site a couple of times, and there's some good information there. The articles about home coffee roasting are a little dated, though - there have been some significant advances in home roasting devices since they reviewed the Precision and the costs for home roasting appliances have gone down quite a bit as well - I think the new iRoast is now about as inexpensive as a good burr grinder. Some of the new roasters are good enough to use as sample roasters and that wasn't the case even a couple of years ago. Home roasting is definitely becoming the hot new trend.

[RedjackRyan]

Welcome to the nuthouse Coffee Roaster, make yourself right to home. If you've beenreading the board, you already know not to feed the dragons, not to antagonize the wizards, tread lightly near the pirates, and not to leave your parrot in the care of Randy from Pa. Never give your car keys to Sister Rose or Hoops, or for that matter even let them know that you have a car... They are good people but they are a bit obsessed with 'borrowing' others modes of transportaion. oh, and there is a GreenMonkey that runs through every now and again, and despite appearances he's neither radioactive or dangerous.. He is however, quite nuts, but then again so are most of us.

I will bite though, whats the deal with Vietnamese coffee?

[Coffee Roaster]

Vietnam is now one of the largest coffee producers in the world - after the war, Vietnam was looking for a new cash crop and due to the climate being ideal for coffee growing settled on coffee. Sadly, they blanketed the country with the lowest of the low-grade coffee species and now they mass produce some of the nastiest coffee on the planet. Between the pressures of globalization and the pirate-like antics (no offense to pirates, as they appear to post here:)) of the huge multinationals like General Foods and Nestle, Vietnamese coffee now sells for around 19 cents/lb on the world market.

From Vietnam to your cup - that nineteen cent swill comprises most of the bulk coffee that's used in commercial canned coffee (and instant coffee is almost entirely Vietnamese dreck). You know, the stuff they charge you an arm and a leg for - the profit margin for Folgers et al is around 300% while the Vietnamese coffee farmers live in dire poverty. Not only is the coffee nasty and undrinkable, but because much of it is low-grade robusta coffee it's also loaded with enough caffeine to make your head explode. Great perhaps after a night of vodka-soaked fun but not great over the Sunday paper.

You could buy canned, ground coffee labeled Colombian, but that's not a huge step up. Most of that is also bulk coffee just slightly less nasty than that produced in Vietnam, although most of the Colombian is at least the superior arabica coffee.

The best way to avoid the greed and soul-deadening grip of the multinationals is to get your coffee from any source other than the canned junk. Naturally I recommend a local roaster but if you're short on cash, heck, roast it yourself. You can buy an inexpensive countertop roaster now for well under a hundred bucks - they're smaller than a coffee pot - and there are coffee buying clubs and co-ops on the internet that can provide green (unroasted) estate coffees for well under two dollars a pound. You'll save a ton of money and have amazing coffee at the same time. I've helped a lot of home roasters with espresso blends and pointed them to some good crops and they're producing pretty much professional-grade coffee with very little effort.

[DaveM]

I wouldn't be that surprised if Vietnamese coffee comes with a dose of Agent Orange at no extra charge....that stuff is incredibly persistent in the soil. I do recall buying some really cheap coffee a while back that was actually marked "product of Vietnam" and finding it undrinkable. Roasted sawdust would have had more flavor. Ugh.

Nice to see a new face on the board. Stick around....if we seem crazy, you'll get used to us. If we don't seem crazy....you're already one of us.

[RedjackRyan]

Thanks for the info, Coffee Roaster. I've sworn off canned coffee and instant coffee decades ago, and now i know why.. Never could stand the taste and once i had a cup of the good stuff, i never went back.

We support a local roaster, though if i had room for one more appliance, i'd probably roast my own as well. I love the aroma of roasting coffee almost as much as drinking it.

[Dar]

I swore off canned coffee years ago myself. When I visit my parents I tell them I've switched to tea so they aren't offended when I don't want to drink from the pot of dreck they constantly have sitting on the hot pad of the coffee maker. :eek:


Many MANY of us have been Janis fans at least as long as you have, so we are all pretty dated. ;)

Jesse and Society's Child huh? What's the last album of Janis' that you listened too? Methinks you might have some catchin' up to do.

[Coffee Roaster]

I swore off canned coffee years ago myself. When I visit my parents I tell them I've switched to tea so they aren't offended when I don't want to drink from the pot of dreck they constantly have sitting on the hot pad of the coffee maker. :eek:


Many MANY of us have been Janis fans at least as long as you have, so we are all pretty dated. ;)

Jesse and Society's Child huh? What's the last album of Janis' that you listened too? Methinks you might have some catchin' up to do.

Let's see...I think the last Janis CD I bought was Hunger, so I definitely have some serious listening ahead. I'm just lazy and tend to fall back on the older stuff (I'm the same way with Dylan, although I loved Time Out of Mind).

Coffee cookin' away on a hot pad...I feel yer pain.

[SongDragon]

Coffee! A necessary drug in my system...

Welcome to the messageboard. I'm one of the newer fans, though I've been here over a year. Glad to see you around, new Rudies are always welcome. These people are a great bunch of people, how could you not want to be a part of a board with them.

:D

~Song

[Dee]

Mmmm coffee. C'mon in, CR.

Welcome to the message board.

[Coffee Roaster]

I wouldn't be that surprised if Vietnamese coffee comes with a dose of Agent Orange at no extra charge....that stuff is incredibly persistent in the soil. I do recall buying some really cheap coffee a while back that was actually marked "product of Vietnam" and finding it undrinkable. Roasted sawdust would have had more flavor. Ugh.



Yeah, Agent Orange was one of those quirky little things we did to 'win' hearts 'n minds. Sort of like our unhappy penchant for bombing wedding parties and our joyriding mercs shooting up civilians in cars is supposed to 'win' us hearts 'n minds in Iraq. Same tactics, same sorry outcome. I often wonder how the wingnuts reconcile our bloodlust and the appalling civilian casualties with the bleating about our 'liberators' bringing democracy and whatnot. I just hate to see such destruction repeat itself in my lifetime.


I've cupped maybe a dozen different Vietnamese coffees and they're all the same - sour, sour, sour. You can taste it clearly in most commercial canned coffees, and it can also be identified by a thin (or not so thin, depending on the ratio they use) white film known as crema that forms on the coffee. A little high-quality robusta in espresso is fine, even recommended, but this stuff is dangerous under any conditions. It's the kind of rotgut that'll destroy your stomach lining.

[Eva]

Enjkoy yourself here on the messageboard. Whatever you do, don't believe a word from what PA Randy is telling you.

It's always nice to see someone being so interested in something that they actually know a lot about the subject. I don't like coffee, to be honest. I am a teadrinker. I do like quality and I always like to give my guests a tasteful cup of coffee or tea. Good advice in that is always welcome.

From coffee to tea: a while ago I bought some white tea. I forgot the exact name of it and I think it was Chinese. It was of good quality, from the tips of the leaves. I swear, the taste was so soft and full. A friend of mine saw my face while I enjoyed a cup and said I was looking like I was drinking 'liquid gold'. Good description... :D

Eva

[Coffee Roaster]

I like white tea - you're right, it's a very soft flavor. I usually order tea from Adagio and they offer quite a few varieties of white, although their oolongs are quite good as well. They also make the IngenuiTEA, which is a groovy little one-cup brewing system that's kind of fun. They're at - you guessed it - adagio.com. Good stuff and not expensive.

[DaveM]

The stuff I have, when I read the label after attempting to drink the stuff, said that it had "flavoring" added. Cannot help but wonder what flavor--it resembled that of the natural by-product of most livestock.

[sister rose]

Hello...and welcome! :D

[GodSistah]

Hello Coffee Roaster and welcome to the message board! :)

~Andrea~

[Agnes]

Hello CR, welcome aboard! Enjoy, and just beware of that Pirate Queen that wants to lure you to her ship :D

[Lin]

Hi Coffee Roaster and welcome to the board. It's a nice place to visit. I stop by everyday!

I am interested in what you have to say about coffee and I am now considering getting a personal roaster.

I just had a couple of questions if you don't mind. When I go to my local supermarket, what should I look for? I will stay away from the canned stuff, but is the bagged coffee good, like the Eight O'Clock brand or Green Mountains? What about the Starbucks brands? I can buy bagged coffee from Dunkin Donuts (are you familiar with them?), the coffee is delicious, but is it okay? Some one gave me a bag of whole coffee beans from BJ's , said it was made from Starbuck's, is this good? Funny, I found it a bit bitter, like Folgers. I appreciate your information. Where does the good coffee come from?

Coffee Roaster, this is what is great about the board, we share ourselves with each other. We offer support, encouragement, friendship, recipes, humor, and our expertise. But the really important part is Janis. She has brought us all together and provided this wonderful place to get together.

There is no one else like Janis Ian, a true gem.

Lin

[Coffee Roaster]

Hi Coffee Roaster and welcome to the board. It's a nice place to visit. I stop by everyday!

I am interested in what you have to say about coffee and I am now considering getting a personal roaster.

I just had a couple of questions if you don't mind. When I go to my local supermarket, what should I look for? I will stay away from the canned stuff, but is the bagged coffee good, like the Eight O'Clock brand or Green Mountains? What about the Starbucks brands? I can buy bagged coffee from Dunkin Donuts (are you familiar with them?), the coffee is delicious, but is it okay? Some one gave me a bag of whole coffee beans from BJ's , said it was made from Starbuck's, is this good? Funny, I found it a bit bitter, like Folgers. I appreciate your information. Where does the good coffee come from?

Coffee Roaster, this is what is great about the board, we share ourselves with each other. We offer support, encouragement, friendship, recipes, humor, and our expertise. But the really important part is Janis. She has brought us all together and provided this wonderful place to get together.

There is no one else like Janis Ian, a true gem.

Lin

Well, there's really no right or wrong answer when you buy whole-bean coffee because everyone's tastes are different. I like earthy coffees, like a Sumatra or Indian Mysore Nuggets, while you might prefer a sweeter, lighter coffee like a Bolivian or something that has nutty/chocolately undertones.

The bean characteristics, however good, can be lost if they aren't roasted in such a way to bring out those characteristics. That's my objection to Starbucks --- they put a very dark roast on everything (we call it "Charbucks") and many of the beans they put this dark roast on lose their distinctive flavor entirely. The result is coffee that tastes thin, bitter, burnt. It's interesting that Starbucks offers many different beans in their line but if you taste the coffees side by side they all taste the same - what a waste, because their purchasing is quite good and they buy from quality estates. You wonder why they bother to offer different beans when you taste how they utterly destroy the flavors of a Kenya AA and make it indistinguishable from a Guatemalan Antigua - two very different coffees.

I love dark roasts but I reserve them for beans that can withstand that. So, just on the basis of roast quality I'd probably stay away from Starbucks - overpriced, thin, not very flavorful.

Green Mountain is pretty good and they're fine supporters of Fair Trade and organic farm development. The main thing is --- find what you like, just buy a quarter-pound at a time until you hit on a winner, and enjoy it!

[Bat]

Hi CR! Glad to have you aboard, talking about one of my most favorite subjects...good coffee!
Now that is something that is really hard to come by. For everyday, I do buy canned coffee from the grocery store, but it has to be Columbian. I find it is ok...not too dark, a nice 'soft' coffee, and I enjoy it.

I got some whole bean from Gevalia, also Columbian, and it's good, about the same as the store stuff. I also got some of their ground Costa Rican peaberry, and found it quite good.

Gevalia features a Colombia Varietal assortment--4 kinds--which leads me to ask if Columbian is always Columbian, as I noticed some brands taste different from others...I like Folger's, btw., for generic stuff.

I know, my taste is not the best, but I have never liked Starbucks for the very reason you cite: they burn it! I have the same problem with most French Roasts...they really are vile, bitter, and burnt tasting.

So...all that said, where can I go to get some really good, well roasted and fine tasting, not acid but smooth and robust, coffee, that I can make as strong as I like it and have it taste as good as it smells?

[Coffee Roaster]

Hi CR! Glad to have you aboard, talking about one of my most favorite subjects...good coffee!
Now that is something that is really hard to come by. For everyday, I do buy canned coffee from the grocery store, but it has to be Columbian. I find it is ok...not too dark, a nice 'soft' coffee, and I enjoy it.

I got some whole bean from Gevalia, also Columbian, and it's good, about the same as the store stuff. I also got some of their ground Costa Rican peaberry, and found it quite good.

Gevalia features a Colombia Varietal assortment--4 kinds--which leads me to ask if Columbian is always Columbian, as I noticed some brands taste different from others...I like Folger's, btw., for generic stuff.

I know, my taste is not the best, but I have never liked Starbucks for the very reason you cite: they burn it! I have the same problem with most French Roasts...they really are vile, bitter, and burnt tasting.

So...all that said, where can I go to get some really good, well roasted and fine tasting, not acid but smooth and robust, coffee, that I can make as strong as I like it and have it taste as good as it smells?

Glad to see another coffee fan here, and it sounds as though you've had some success in finding the characteristics you like.

Colombian is always Colombian for identification purposes, but from farm to farm within the country there can be a huge difference in the coffees produced. Some may use different botanical cultivars, some are shade-grown, some come from different altitudes and some use different processing methods. All these things have an affect on the final product, although usually you can find some similar defining characteristics within a country's coffee. The roasting process will also have a major affect on the final product.

I'll mention that no matter how it's packaged, roasted coffee is a highly perishable product that loses flavor within days of roasting. It loses flavor even more rapidly after it's ground. That's why I'd recommend that you try out a local roaster and experience coffee that isn't stale and degraded. Freshly roasted coffee has the intensity of flavor that you mention you want and it also produced a much more powerful aroma while brewing. Or you might want to experiment in roasting your own - you're fully in control of the final outcome.

I'd suggest you branch out into some African coffees - they have many of the characteristics you mention and they're delicious. One that's commonly available is Ethiopian Harar Horse - full bodied, rich, complex and very smooth. It's also not as expensive as some Kenyas (and Kenya might be too acidic for you). Tanzanian peaberry is also a good everyday African. One of my favorites - I always have some on hand - is Uganda Bugisu organic. It has great body and smoothness, and it has big chocolate milk/walnut notes - just delicious. It's a great after-dinner coffee. You'll never drink the canned stuff again :)

[Lin]

Thanks for your help, CR. I bought some Green Mountain Breakfast Blend today and will try it later.

Lin

[Bat]

Wow! thanks for the quick reply, CR! Now, the next question is, Where does one pick up the desired variety of unroasted coffee...or roasted, for that matter...I drink pots, so it wouldn't have a chance to degrade much. I do like beans, since I have a coffee maker/grinder...keeps it simple, and makes great coffee. I also like it quite strong, so a stronger flavored bean would go farther, I'd think.
Who would have Uganda Bugisu...sounds delicious! I want some NOW!

[Coffee Roaster]

Wow! thanks for the quick reply, CR! Now, the next question is, Where does one pick up the desired variety of unroasted coffee...or roasted, for that matter...I drink pots, so it wouldn't have a chance to degrade much. I do like beans, since I have a coffee maker/grinder...keeps it simple, and makes great coffee. I also like it quite strong, so a stronger flavored bean would go farther, I'd think.
Who would have Uganda Bugisu...sounds delicious! I want some NOW!

There are lots of places to buy green coffee, but I'd start out with these two and once you've determined what you really like you can shop around for better prices at online buying clubs and co-ops. These sites have a lot of information about each bean and it's a good place to learn.

Probably the biggest and most comprehensive is Sweet Maria's at http://sweetmarias.com.

I think this site carries a slightly better Uganda Bugisu: http://coffeebeancorral.com

You can pick up a roaster at either site as well.

Good luck, and let me know how it goes!

[Amy in Vermont]

Ah, coffee.. the elixir of life!

I love good strong coffee. I was interested to hear your comments on Starbucks.. I agree that it has a universally "burnt" flavor.

Here at home, I drink Green Mountain. I think I would probably be deported back to Boston if I didn't!

At school, they use Speeder and Earl's, another local Vermont company (http://www.vtcoffee.com/). Their coffees seem to have a little stronger flavor than Green Mountain, but very fine stuff.

Another source I occaisionly get coffee gifts from is http://www.cafealtagracia.com/, a unique outfit dedicated to sustainable agriculture and education. It was started by a professor here at the college and her husband, who is a local opthamologist. The coffee and the cause are both worthy of checking out.

[DaveM]

Not sure if Arco Coffee is a national or regional thing, but they are located in Duluth, Minnesota and roast their own blend right there, so it gets to area shelves quite fresh. Unfortunately, all they make is "Regular" and "Decaf" and do not specify the ingredients further. To me it tastes pretty much like the stuff that comes out of cans and I rarely bother paying the $6 a pound price tag.

The local coop carries whole bean coffee from some organic grower whose name I cannot recall (really love their Kona blend, which is a wonderful morning jackhammer jumpstart), and that stuff is mighty fine. I have a coffee pot with a built-in grinder which, if not the greatest thing since sliced bread, probably ranks on the same level.

[Bat]

Aren't those pots great, Dave? I have a Cuisinart, and am holding one from Gevalia in reserve just in case.
Gevalia costs upwards of $6 for a half-pound, which is too rich for my blood, good or not!
CR, I would like to know if it is possible to do a good roasting job without investing in a very expensive roaster? I mean, I can roast peanuts in the oven, I can make popcorn...what is so tough about roasting coffee, assuming one knew how? I love my good strong coffee, and Folger's Columbian is generally good, (although I have had some rotten stuff which I can only blame on the weather and a poor crop year...nobody's was good for a while).
I used to work for Hills Brothers in San Fran ...just a temp job collecting samples from the roaster and testing it for moisture content, but it was fun and smelled pretty good. Don't get me started on DeCaf, tho...that stuff was rank, and always green. Ugh! I also absolutely will not drink instant... the stuff gives me a gut ache every tme, and the flavor--if you can call it that-- is vile; rank, even.
I bought a fresh can of Folgers today, and it tastes very good. I do find, however, that heating a cooled cup of coffee in the microwave seems to take something away from the flavor. Ok. I'll stop.

[Coffee Roaster]

You can roast in the oven or even in a skillet but the results might be a little uneven.

The cheapest way to get consistent results without a commercial roaster is to roast your coffee in a popcorn popper. You can get a Poppery II on eBay or at a thrift store fairly cheaply ($10 or so), and it'll roast enough for a pot or two at a time.

However you roast, be sure to put your roasted coffee in an airtight container and let it degass for 12-24 hours, otherwise it'll be fairly flavorless.

Here's some information on using a popcorn popper for coffee:

http://coffeetea.about.com/library/weekly/aa031903popcorn.htm

[Bat]

What a fabulous idea, CR, and I just happen to have an air popper! I assume one does not butter the coffee! LOL
So, guess I'll get me some green beans and try it one of these days...sounds like fun, and I may just get good at it! Does it pop?

[Coffee Roaster]

What a fabulous idea, CR, and I just happen to have an air popper! I assume one does not butter the coffee! LOL
So, guess I'll get me some green beans and try it one of these days...sounds like fun, and I may just get good at it! Does it pop?

Actually, it sorta does...after a few minutes (it's a fast roast in a popper) you'll hear popping sounds. This is called first crack and if you want a medium roast you'll stop the roast after the popping sounds stop. If you want a darker roast, continue and you'll next hear a crackling sound - this is called second crack and you can stop the roast when you've achieved the roast level you're looking for.

You need to cool the beans down right away (they'll be very hot) and clear out the chaff, which is a silverskin covering that falls away from the beans as they roast. You can do both at the same time by tossing the beans between colanders for a couple of minutes.

The roasting process does produce smoke, so I'd roast under a kitchen fan or in your garage.

The entire process is really very easy. I'm surprised that more people don't roast their own coffee - it's about as fresh as it gets.

I'd probably start out with a very inexpensive coffee during your learning curve. This site sells Brazilian that's actually very nice and it's only about a buck fifty a pound.

http://www.carmocoffee.com/page/page/1864434.htm

[RedjackRyan]

Now that appeals to the macguyver in me.. now i have a use for those three hot air poppers that are gathering dust. Assuming i can find green coffee beans without ordering..

This is why i love this board, never know what interesting information you'll find!

[Irish Beth]

Welcome to the boar CR. Sounds like your making new friends at a fast clip, good for you!

Enjoy yourself here and if you happen to be in Pittsburgh on August 12th come to the Jan-nic in the Park picnic where you'll get to meet lots of Rudies face to face. Truly an experience not to be missed.

Irish Beth

[Coffee Roaster]

Now that appeals to the macguyver in me.. now i have a use for those three hot air poppers that are gathering dust. Assuming i can find green coffee beans without ordering..

This is why i love this board, never know what interesting information you'll find!

Most local roasters will sell you a couple of pounds of green coffee if you ask really nicely :)

[DaveM]

Truly one learns something every day....I had no idea there was a legitimate use for a hot air popcorn popper. Now if only someone can tell me what to do with the Hot Topper and the crock pot. "Doorstop" just doesn't seem creative enough.