Goodbye to ad skipping on Dvrs?

[RedjackRyan]

In this era of easy ad skipping with TiVo-like video recorders, could television viewers one day be forced to watch commercials with a system that prevents channel switching?

Yes, according to Royal Philips Electronics. A patent application with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office says researchers of the Netherland-based consumer electronics company have created a technology that could let broadcasters freeze a channel during a commercial, so viewers wouldn't be able to avoid it.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20060420/ap_on_hi_te/anti_ad_skipper_3





This is precisely the reason i built my own Freevo system free of any idiotic DRM limitations.

[Green Monkey]

<Begin Monkey Rant>

Phillips, in their press release, swears its not making a product using this technology, nor that it has any plans to do so, and, whats more, that the real intention of their patent is to enable the creation of a TV on which people could to pay to opt out of commercials. Riiiiiiiiight. :p Don't pee down my leg and then tell me its raining, Phillips.

Speaking for myself, I do not watch commercials and have not for a long time, unless I *want* to see a particular commercial, which is rare. For example, I am fond of the AFLAC commercials, I like those. Now, if someone ever tried to sell me a TV on which I could not switch channels when a commercial was on, or if I could not mute the commercial, or if I could not FF thru it if it was on a DVR, then I would tell them to stick that TV where the sun don't shine. I think most people would have the same reaction. Thus, such a device would most likely be a commercial failure, people vote with their feet I think.

Does anyone watch commercials any more? When I'm on the web, I do not even see ads anymore, I mean they are there, but I do not see them. Ads are a such a complete waste, a plague upon our medias, created by Marketing F***s to justify their existence. My view, YMMV.

<End Monkey Rant>

GM out :D

[Dee]

Sounds like dirty business to me. Luckily I am so low tech it won't make a crumb of difference to how I watch TV -

(cable, a 27" flat screen and me trusty remote).

Redjack, Bet you could make a wad if you marketed that Freevo system. ;)

[RedjackRyan]

The market would be fairly limited, i'd bet Dee. Wasn't cheap to build and i didn't even use top of the line hardware and i still only *just* came in under a grand. It does allow me to do things Tivo won't, i can play any region Dvd, bypass those annoying can't skip commercials on dvd's, and i can auto-skip most commercials during a recording session (about 75% of the time anyway) Record anything and burn it to dvd if i choose.. all on one remote control. I suppose bare bones i could put one together for under $500 but its still not something everyone would jump on. It means a full Pc in the living room, monitor and all..though you can display the pc video on a tv.. looks pretty horrid though. If any one is really interested, i can try to explain what I did and what hardware i used.

[Bat]

Redjack, if you could put that technology (commercial skipper) in an HDTV, you would sell a jillion, guaranteed! I'd buy 3! I HATE commercials, (but have to agree with GreenMonkey that the Aflack one is pretty funny...the whole idea is about freedom of choice, a very precious idea to me, and one which is being eroded by every law passed, it seems.)
I mute all commercials, and/or leave the room--go out on the deck and burn one, checking now and then through the glass door until the ads are over--then return for the show.
Unfortunately, after the first segment, which is long (comparatively) to get you hooked on the story, every little segment thereafter is punctuated by ads which run as long or longer than the action. Disgusting.
Admen should be strung up and made to watch competitors' ads ad nauseum.
Yes, that's what I have: Ad Nauseum.
So develop your technology, Redjack, and you will be amazed at the sales!!
This has been a royal rant!!

[RedjackRyan]

Bat, the HDTV is actually part of the problem, part of the reason the FCC and various industry cartels are pushing the migration to HDTV is for the digital rights management control. I know Paularoid posted something on it before the last board upgrade, here's a link that discusses it. http://www.eff.org/broadcastflag/ There are also some links to various methods of making ones own Digital Video Recorder...

I'd be willing to help any rudie build a system for their own use, or build it for them.. but my aspirations are not high enough to try to market such a thing.. I've got enough on my plate as it is :)

[Green Monkey]

Yes, that's what I have: Ad Nauseum.Good one, Bat. :D

Redjack, I was intrigued when you mentioned your FreeVO thingee, that sounds cool. :) Right now, we do not subscribe to either cable or sat, we just live off rabbit ears at this time. I was watching too much TV as it was. Having said that, I am looking fwd to buying an HD set, now that native 1080 res boxes are coming out in quantity in 2006. When I make that purchase, I'll most likely subscribe to an HD satellite svc, for which they hopefully do not want payment in blood for. :p Whats the FreeVO story when it comes to HD content, RedJack? Has the broadcast flag been successfully mandated via the FCC yet, or is that not a done deal? I'd be interested in hearing more on this topic, I have not researched it in quite a while and I know the landscape has been evolving while I was not paying attention.

Thanks in advance,

GM :D

[RedjackRyan]

Gm, so far the broadcast flag has not been successfully passed through legislation (knock wood) but of course we know that sooner or later the big conglomerates will get that pushed through.

I believe that once i pay for something, it should be mine to do with however i damn well please.. If i want to play the thing on my computer, I should be able to without worrying about insane drm that installs a rootkit on my machine or copy protection that makes my machine unstable. I should also be able to purchase any Dvd in the BBC library and put it in my dvd player without worrying about Region coding.. I should be able to make a copy for my own personal use and store the original somewhere safe.

Now in my case, my inner geek got the better of me and i set out to prove a point. I was almost ready to buy a Tivo, until i learned that Tivo had made a change to their software and inadvertantly enabled the broadcast flag tech early.. They did fix their mistake after a huge public outcry, but that sealed their fate in my eyes.. i'd never buy a commercial DVR.

So the freevo became my solution.. (though it certainly wasn't free) I took a spare motherboard, new case.. got a Tv capture card and a good video card with a TV out port. I made sure that all the parts i used were free of DRM. I split the signal from my satellite box and run one cable into the capture card. that lets me digitally record anything that my sat dish picks up. I can time shift past commercials or run back something i missed... I've also got the thing wired into my stereo and all my other vcr's , turntables, tape decks and so forth. It sits on my network so i can store media on the file server and pull it back as needed... I threw a dvd burner in so i can burn shows i want to keep. Currently i have enough diskspace for 15 days continuous recording.

The current rig runs under Windows XP .. probably won't last though .. i'm thinking of going to KnoppMyth which is a linux based system. I'm ever fearful that one of the damn microsoft updates will force a Drm patch and ruin all my hard work.

I'd do some things differently if i had to do it over again, I'd probably spend a bit more and get a hauppage video card/tv tuner/capture card as they seem to be the favorite amongst the build your own pvr crowd and come with some very nice software. I went with ATI cards in my present system, and while they do a good job..the software blows bigtime.

As to HDTv, i personally don't care... Theres precious little worth watching on tv anyway, better resolution isn't going to improve shitty scriptwriting. I did read an article not long ago that pretty much blew apart the 1080i 'must have' issue but i didn't bookmark it.. I'll try to find it, in the meantime I did find this article which explains the entire HDTV landscape fairly well. http://www.projectorcentral.com/hdtv_edtv.htm

[paularoid]

In this era of easy ad skipping with TiVo-like video recorders, could television viewers one day be forced to watch commercials with a system that prevents channel switching?

Yes, according to Royal Philips Electronics. A patent application with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office says researchers of the Netherland-based consumer electronics company have created a technology that could let broadcasters freeze a channel during a commercial, so viewers wouldn't be able to avoid it.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20060420/ap_on_hi_te/anti_ad_skipper_3

This is precisely the reason i built my own Freevo system free of any idiotic DRM limitations.
Phillips reply to all the uproar that came as a result of this announcement:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=1889

Philips Responds to Anti-Commercial Skip Uproar
Tuan Nguyen - April 20, 2006 6:02 PM

Providing technology that prevents viewers from changing channels during commercials has not given Philips positive PR

We reported earlier this week that Philips was in the process or creating PVR technologies that would allow broadcasters to prevent TV viewers from fast forwarding over commercials. The biggest zinger however, was the fact that Philips is also including technology to enable broadcasters to prevent viewers from changing channels altogether when a commercial starts.

Of course, news about this caused an uproar and Philips has responded by saying that the feature can be enabled or disabled by the viewer. A viewer can choose whether or not to watch a program with or without commercials. However, Philips says it has suggested in its patent filing that broadcasters decide whether or not to allow viewers the freedom of choice depending on whether they are paying a fee to watch a program or channel.
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[DaveM]

Well, commercials do provide a valuable social service in the form of providing convenient intervals at which to go to the bathroom or make a sandwich (preferably not in that order).

[Bat]

Yeah; but, Dave, every seven minutes???? That's a lot of ...erm, sandwiches.

[RedjackRyan]

Paul, i only have two words for Phillips.. First word begins with F .. rhymes with Duck.. Second word begins with Y rhymes with new..

Everytime one of these issues comes up, i still hear the words from Star Wars in my head.. ' The more they tighten their grip, the more systems will slip through their fingers'