(Politics) Bush's Impeachable Offenses

[paularoid]

But get 'em all simultaneously I'd say, otherwise one evil will take over for the other and then pardon the first. :mad:
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Impeachment Good for Republicans and Democrats
http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?menu=A11100&no=335631&rel_no=1&back_url=

Bush's Impeachable Offenses, Part 1
http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?menu=A11100&no=340571&rel_no=1&back_url=

Bush's Impeachable Offenses, Part 2
http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?menu=A11100&no=340571&rel_no=2&back_url=

Bush's Impeachable Offenses, Part 3
http://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?menu=A11100&no=340571&rel_no=3&back_url=
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[suzanne]

I feel he is an honest hard working man. He has the courage to stick what he feels is right, listen to popular and profession advise whether popular or not. The buck is his and I feel he is doing the best he can with current situation. The fighting is in the Middle East not here at home and terror attacks have not occured on a massive scale here again. He prays and I feel attempts to listen for God's guidance in his actions and in actions. Scripture states wars and rumors of wars near the end of the world. What do you think? Are we close to Armigetton and Christ's return and 1000 year reign of peace? I do not know.

[Rkitko]

No disrespect meant, Suzanne, but I personally would much rather have an atheist or agnostic president. To claim one actually hears the voice of a deity and act on what that voice urges is, in my opinion, not a sign of a rational person worthy of leadership.

I don't put much stock in what scripture says, though I do have one question--do those books say anything about who starts all those wars in Revelation? Should a Christian man be starting wars? What, really, would Jesus do? Serious questions, because I honestly don't know. :confused:

[dragonlady]

If Bush is such a good man why did he have to lie to the country and Congress to get us to support the war in Iraq in the first place? That is the first and firemost impeachable offence he committed in my opinion.

-di

[Darlene]

Sorry suzanne, but I believe that Bush is a very scary man. I pray everyday that God will protect us from this man. Iraq did not attack us. They did not ask us to come and rescue them. I agree that Hussein was a very bad man, but who are we to decide whether or not he was to die. I think that only God can make a decision like that. I do not trust Bush to make any decisions about anything except maybe what he is going to have to eat and even then he can make a mistake. REMEMBER THE PRETZELS!

I cannot believe that God has his hand on such an imbecile unless it is to try very hard to keep him in line.

I have had three members of my family in Iraq, and they can tell you how much they hate us over there unless we have food and shelter or the kids who want candy. The majority do not want us there and I don't blame them.

I love America I love living here and the freedom that we (have?)! We are becoming more like a dictatorship! Spying and making people go into a war that no one wants. People are being killed at an alarming rate, not to think of the money spent when we have people dying because of a lack of health care, food and shelter.

Enough of my soapbox!

Peace, Darlene

[Rkitko]

I agree that Hussein was a very bad man, but who are we to decide whether or not he was to die.
Darlene, do you remember Phil Ochs? He had a great song on the subject of that very same idea you just pointed out above:

Please stay off of the grass, boys
Please stay off of the grass
Here's a kick in the ass, boys
Here's a kick in the ass
We'll smash down your doors, we don't bother to knock
We've done it before, so why all the shock?
We're the biggest and toughest kids on the block
'Cause we're the Cops of the World, boys
We're the Cops of the World

When we butchered your son, boys
When we butchered your son
Have a stick of our gum, boys
Have a stick of our buble-gum
We own half the world, oh say can you see
The name for our profits is democracy
So, like it or not, you will have to be free
'Cause we're the Cops of the World, boys
We're the Cops of the World
--Phil Ochs, Cops of the World

[Darlene]

Darlene, do you remember Phil Ochs? He had a great song on the subject of that very same idea you just pointed out above:


Yes Rkitko, I do remember Phil Ochs although it has been a while. You are right the song does hover over the same ideas as mine. I love that song! I will have to drag out some of my downloads (ssshhhh) of him and see if I can find that song!

Peace, Darlene

[Rkitko]

I won't tell the RIAA if you won't, Darlene ;) 'Cause true to Janis's article on music downloading, after hearing a couple songs I went out and bought 4 albums worth of his music. Same thing happened when I first started listening to Janis. It was a song here and there downloaded from her website and from the Brazilian one. I now own over 20 Janis Ian CDs--I've lost count. Very sneaky, Janis! Following the business model of drug dealers... "Here, just have a free sample. *snickers* He'll be back..." ;)

[DaveM]

If Phil Ochs lived today, the RIAA would make sure he never issued a single album.

It seems to me that there have always been "wars and rumors of wars". And of course, those who believe "the end is near". Sooner or later, some of them will be right. Personally, I do not give it much thought.

Not to offend anyone's beliefs or start a Theology thread, but John the Divine was most likely writing allegorically about events that were taking place as he was writing, including the hideous persecution of early Christians under the Roman Emperor Nero. He wrote that "there are men now living who shall not taste death until these things come to pass", as did, I believe, Paul.

Jesus stated notably that he would come "like a thief in the night". He may indeed have come and gone, perhaps to check back on us in another time.

[Dee]

Someone once said insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.

Bush is a megalomaniac, a dictator, and an evil-doing misguided destroyer.

Not only does he lie to his own people, he continues to send them into illegal wars and to senseless slaughter.

And if that isn’t enough, he’s succeeding at running the US into ruin. I am still gob smacked that half the country voted for him – not once but twice!

I could go on, but what’s the point?

[Darlene]

I could go on, but what’s the point?
by. Dee
You should go on Dee, because we learn by history if we pay attention and this a grave situtation. We do not need to make this mistake again!
I never voted for Bush either time. Both times I chose to vote for the lessor of two evils. But these dumb people who can not see through his dumb Texan"s fraud...well...I don't know!

[david uk]

Suzanne, my point is the same as one or two other people have mentioned here-

Bush, together with Blair here in the UK- willingly lied to take us into an illegal war. That is a crime in my eyes. No excuses.

You say "the fighting is in the Middle East not here, and terror attacks have not occured on a massive scale here again". I find that a disturbing thing to say- are you saying that it is ok for Arab people to die, so long as Americans do not? Iraq is in a terrible state - and we are directly responsible- the entire population of Baghdad is living in fear- this cannot be right.

I think many Americans also need to be reminded that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

[Dee]

Yes, that's another big lie David. Bush spouting off that the middle east is envious of the alleged freedoms of the west.

Learn from history, Darlene? One can only hope so. So far there’s no evidence of that south of our shared border.

I sincerely pray that the citizens of the United States will be wise enough in the next election to fire the Republicans and take back their country. I also pray it’s not beyond salvaging.

[Rkitko]

I do my part, Dee, but alas I can only vote once ;)

[Dee]

I never doubted your common sense for a moment, Rkitko!

[Oak Kitten]

There is plenty of blame to go around for this mess. The people who elected Bush (not me!)
The members of Congress who rolled over in 2003 when he started rattling the sabers towards Iraq - and that includes most DEMOCRATS, I am ashamed to say. They completely forfeited their constitutional responsibility, and now they are compounding matters with this spineless non-binding resolution against the "escalation."

The arrogance of the present administration is only exceeded by its incompetence. It may well be that GWB is thoroughly convinced he is doing the right thing. I am sure that he is sure - but that does not make him right.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. . .

Oak

[Eva]

What? No blowjobs?

Eva

[Oak Kitten]

Eva, my dear:

While such an act was considered grounds for impeachment by the rabid Clinton-hating Republicans, I am afraid that the theory that the same act performed on GWB would lead to his impeachment is predicated on fellatious reasoning. . .

Oak

[DaveM]

I'd call for a rimshot, but perhaps that is the wrong word.

If Bush got a BJ, would that be the Second Coming?

[Rkitko]

I'd call for a rimshot, but perhaps that is the wrong word.

If Bush got a BJ, would that be the Second Coming?

*headdesk* Ow, the humor hurts, Dave. ;)

[Randy & Betty in Pa]

Good evening all...

And here I've been behaving so well tooo.... Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water..... So what do I have to say as you all pretty much know my feelings about bush....(Intentional lower case to express my feelings distinctly but without to much mallace.... But what I do have to say is that though I have no respect for bush I do respect totally Suzannes position. You see I know something about her that many of you don't... She is a Southern Lady that just happens to be a good friend and close relation to Betty... Suzzzz has worked for the Veterans Administration in medical areas and does sincerely care about our troops.... Right, wrong or indifferent she is a great American and a fairly new but good Rudie.... Suzzzz again we don't agree on something but it's not the first time nor will it be the last but I thank God having you to argue with... You and Dan are special people.... And good friends.

Best to all

R. from Pa

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS... BRING THEM HOME NOW!

[Darlene]

OK Eva, DaveM, and Rkitko where have your minds been. It sounds like in the gutter but now the problem is that I have been snickering away with you guys so sadly I must admit to being in that gutter with you! Sigh! LOL, Darlene:D

[DaveM]

Darlene, if you ever find my mind I do hope you will return it. I truly miss it at times.

[paularoid]

Good evening all...

And here I've been behaving so well tooo.... Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water..... So what do I have to say as you all pretty much know my feelings about bush....(Intentional lower case to express my feelings distinctly but without to much mallace.... But what I do have to say is that though I have no respect for bush I do respect totally Suzannes position.
Note should be made that I have -not- "waded into the fray" here. I could,.. and I felt like it,.. but I didn't,.. and won't. I'll let the preponderance of evidence speak for me instead.

[Dee]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion here. It's nothing personal to have a difference of opinion.

In 1971 during the Vietnam War, this song was Freda Payne's second gold record. Jann Arden has done a new version of it included on her CD of cover songs (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product//B000MGUZ7K/ref=cm_rv_thx_view/701-7813035-0673909) just released along with our Janis' At Seventeen. It's a great song, even after 35 years. Hopefully one day no one will need to sing it anymore.

BRING THE BOYS HOME

Fathers are pleading, lovers are all alone
Mothers are prayin', send our sons back home
You marched them away, on the ships and planes
To a senseless war facing death in vain

Bring the boys home (bring 'em back alive)
Bring the boys home (bring 'em back alive)
Bring the boys home (bring 'em back alive)
Bring the boys home (bring 'em back alive)
Turn the ships around
Lay your weapons down

Can't you see 'em marchin' 'cross the sky?
All the soldiers that have died
Tryin' to get home
Can't you see them tryin' to get home?
Tryin' to get home
They're tryin' to get home

Cease all fire on the battlefield
Enough men have already been wounded and killed

Bring the boys home (bring 'em back alive)
Bring the boys home (bring 'em back alive)
Bring the boys home (bring 'em back alive)
Bring the boys home (bring 'em back alive)

What they doin' over there now (bring 'em back alive)
When we need 'em over here now? (bring 'em back alive)
What they doin' over there now (bring 'em back alive)
When we need 'em over here now? (bring 'em back alive)

Bring the boys home (bring 'em back alive)
Bring the boys home (bring 'em back alive)

(fade out)

[Eva]

I still think it's more fun to be in this gutter with Darlene, Rkitko and DaveM.

Eva

[Oak Kitten]

Randy,

I don't think anyone here is attacking Suzanne personally. She has every right to air her opinions. But this is also the ZOO, and ya gotta go with the flow. . .

Oak (One of the other Randys)

[RedjackRyan]

I'm partly with you Suzanne. I think Bush believes he's doing the right thing, only history will be able to say yes or no to that. I've got my issues with the Bush presidency, but at heart I believe he's trying to do what he believes is best.

[Rkitko]

...but at heart I believe he's trying to do what he believes is best.

I believe that's the most frightening thing of all, Redjack. At least in my opinion.

[RedjackRyan]

Indeed it is, Rkitko.. Indeed it is.

[hoops]

suzanne,
i feel where you are coming from. and i wanted to trust Bush, i thought he ewas a good man doing his best in a tough world. goodness knows being president is a very tough job in any political climate, it's not a job i would want ( cause they'd kick me out) but i have watched the man and listened to him and i have heard his lies and seen the way he tries to use his faith against the peoples good faith in him and it scares me. i don;t know why he does it, maybe he truly believ es he is doing the best for the country and for the world. i don;t know though, we seem to dig in deeper and deeper into a mess. i respect your opinion, i just don;t agree
peace
hoops

[Wildflower Fever]

I don't want to offend anyone here either, but here goes anyway. Bush IS the worst president in at least any living person's memory that I know personally. That alone says a lot. Is he the worst ever? That's probably too difficult a question for the span of time to accurately answer. His first presidency is probably one of the most questionable both legally and ethically, and Al Gore should have been president. OK, that's the past, so let's move on right? I'm too brow-beaten to even care to mention the impeachable offenses, of which there are many. But, there's also the midnight dealings, secret signing statements attached to bills, and the many acts of "law-bending" like the domestic eavesdropping program. I find it hilarious that he and his cronies are always saying we need laws to reflect the will of the people, not activist judges. Yet, when asked about the legality of said surveillance program, he said it was an old law from the 70's. So, I guess Roe-v-Wade is just an old law from the 70's we should all ignore or re-interpret for ourselves. There are many things that embarass me about our nation in the last 6 years, but perhaps most embarassing is the fact that a third of our nation still approves of his job performance. In fact , this is terrifying to me. There are STILL way too few willing to unequivocally question this man. God (I mean that figuratively) help us, please.

[Bat]

One thing I would seriously like to know. After wading through all the BS and spin, the question still remains: Why are we REALLY in Iraq? and why the reluctance to leave?
Just wondering...will we ever get down to bedrock?

[Darlene]

Yes Bat, That is the most important question at hand! Why are we in Iraq and why don't we leave? Maybe it's that bozo president that is office? Do ya think?:eek:

[Dee]

What are the real reasons behind the administration's rush towards war? (http://www.ips-dc.org/iraq/primer1.htm#2)

U.S. threats to go to war against Iraq are largely driven by oil and empire - expanding U.S. military and economic power. As these goals primarily benefit oil companies and the already rich and powerful, the Bush administration relies on fear to mobilize public support for war among ordinary Americans by linking Iraq falsely with the very real threat of terrorism and through rhetoric like "axis of evil." Bush also plays on Americans' genuine concern about human rights to gain support.

Many top officials of the Bush administration come directly out of the oil industry. President Bush himself, as well as Vice-President Dick Cheney, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of Commerce Donald Evans and others all have strong ties to oil companies - Chevron once named a tanker after Rice as a gesture of thanks.


But the U.S. isn't threatening an invasion simply to ensure its continued access to Iraqi oil. Rather, it is a much broader U.S. play for control of the oil industry and the ability to set the price of oil on the world market.


***

How did U.S. corporations help Iraq obtain weapons of mass destruction? (http://www.ips-dc.org/iraq/primer4.htm#35)

During its alliance with the United States in the 1970s and 1980s, Iraq had active programs producing chemical and biological weapons, and researching and working towards production of a nuclear weapon. These programs were actively and knowingly supported by U.S. corporations and the U.S. government, as revealed in 1994 House Banking Committee hearings. Those hearings revealed, among other things, that the American Type Culture Collection, a company outside of Washington DC, had provided Iraq with the seed stock for biological weapons agents including anthrax, botulinum, e-coli and many more, under license by the U.S. Commerce Department.

A leak in the German newspaper die Tageszeitung of some of the 8,000 pages that Washington deleted from Iraq's December 7, 2002, arms declaration provided further information. The deleted sections documented 24 U.S. corporations, 55 U.S. subsidiaries of foreign corporations, and a number of U.S. government agencies that provided parts, material, training and other assistance to Iraq's chemical, biological, missile, and nuclear weapons programs throughout the 1970s and 80s, some continuing till the end of 1990. The U.S. corporations include Honeywell, Rockwell, Hewlett Packard, Dupont, Eastman Kodak, Bechtel, and more. U.S. government Departments of Energy, Commerce, Defense and Agriculture, as well as federal laboratories at Sandia, Los Alamos and Lawrence Livermore, were also involved.

A major front-page article in the Washington Post (December 30, 2002) further documented U.S. support for Iraq's WMD programs, especially the chemical program, including trade in weapons and other military goods. The article also detailed the active involvement of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, then a special envoy of President Reagan to Iraq, in reestablishing full diplomatic relations and improving trade and other economic ties that bolstered Washington's military support of Iraq.

Other Republican insiders were involved in shady deals that helped build Iraq's WMDs. In 1989, news broke of a secret $4 billion loan made to Iraq by a U.S. branch of Banca Nazionale del Lavoro (BNL) of Italy, which at the time employed Henry Kissinger on its Consulting Board for International Policy. Congressman Henry Gonzalez, chair of the banking committee, also noted that an executive of Kissinger Associates met Saddam Hussein in Baghdad in June 1989 at a meeting in which the Iraqi leader apparently expressed interest in expanding commercial relations with the U.S. "Many Kissinger Associates clients received U.S. export licenses for exports to Iraq. Several were also the beneficiaries of BNL loans to Iraq," Congressman Gonzalez wrote in a letter to then-President Bush (senior). Iraq also used the BNL loans to attempt to buy difficult-to-manufacture nuclear weapons components.

[Dee]

Does the U.S. have the right to invade Iraq?

No.

from: UNDERSTANDING THE U.S.-IRAQ CRISIS:
The World's Response, the UN & International Law (http://www.ips-dc.org/iraq/primer2.htm#15)

[david uk]

During its alliance with the United States in the 1970s and 1980s, Iraq had active programs producing chemical and biological weapons, and researching and working towards production of a nuclear weapon. These programs were actively and knowingly supported by U.S. corporations and the U.S. government, as revealed in 1994 House Banking Committee hearings.

Hey everyone I've got a great idea... let's sell Iraq loads of weapons and then go to war with them for posessing the weapons we sold them....

the US foreign policy reeks of hypocrisy.

[Dee]

I'm just as ashamed of our Canadian troops going to sacrifice there, and in Afghanistan, David. Our current Prime Minister is a dork, hopefully soon to get the boot, pray God.

Yes, it IS a mad mad mad mad mad world! (Only not as fun as the movie.)

[Bat]

Why isn't all this information being blatted incessantly over the media until the rest of the country 'gets it'? We've known most of this for years, followed the news and put it all together...we know this whole war and reasons(?) for it stink to high heaven. Why doesn't Congress put the whole ugly package out there for everyone to see, and vote a BINDING resolution to end the war? So many questions, so few answers. Maybe nobody is asking these things to the right people?? BAH!

[Dee]

But Bat, if the general population starts investigating what's really going on and stops taking for granted that everything the government does is with their best interests at heart, that could spell the end of lining their own pockets. What’s one more person sent to slaughter compared to fulfilling your own greedy ambitions? Why demand accountability when going along for the ride is easier?

You’re right. The whole bloody mess stinks!