Evangelist admits buying meth, massage

[Dee]

Evangelist admits buying meth, massage (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061103/haggard_allegations_061103/20061103?hub=TopStories)

Influential evangelist Ted Haggard admitted Friday that he bought methamphetamine and received a massage from a male prostitute who claims the pastor paid him for regular sex. But he maintained that he never had sex with the hustler or used the drug.

Haggard, an outspoken a vocal opponent of gay marriage, resigned from his post as the president of the U.S. National Association of Evangelicals after accusations from the gay escort hit airwaves.

On Friday, the 50-year-old pastor denied having sex with Mike Jones, a 49-year-old male prostitute who told a radio station Haggard paid him for near-monthly sexual trysts over the past three years.

He admitted to having a massage from Jones, however, after being referred to him by a Denver hotel.

Haggard also admitted to reporters that he bought the drug out of curiosity, but he threw it away.

"I bought it for myself but never used it," he said. "I was tempted, but I never used it."

<snip>

Another prominent religious conservative leader blasted the media for reporting a "rumour" based on "nothing but one man's accusation."

"Ted Haggard is a friend of mine, and it appears someone is trying to damage his reputation as a way of influencing the outcome of Tuesday's election -- especially the vote on Colorado's marriage-protection amendment, which Ted strongly supports," said James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, also based in Colorado Springs.

Haggard, who is often credited with rallying conservative Christians behind U.S. President George Bush for his 2004 re-election, talks to Bush or his advisers every week, according to Harper's.

Jerry Falwell, a prominent conservative Christian and Republican Party stalwart, was quick to play down Haggard's role among evangelicals.

"He (Haggard) doesn't really lead the (evangelical) movement. ... He is the president of an association that is very loosely knit and I've never been a member of it," Falwell said in a CNN interview on Thursday.

__________________

Gotta love the way Falwell is trying to distance himself from the whole thing. There's your true brotherly love. Ugh.

[Oak Kitten]

"I bought it for myself but never used it," he said. "I was tempted, but I never used it."

Is this the Evangelical version of "I didn't inhale?"

Oak

[Eva]

I don't understand the fuss. I mean... so he paid for a massage and some sex. It's not like he wants to marry the guy! :p :rolleyes:

Eva

[hoops]

eva, omg i'm rolling on the floor laughing over that one!
peace
hoops

[DaveM]

I must say that it's a bit of relief to see people who are not noted for their progressive attitudes to acknowledge that sex and drugs are indeed traditional values.

Note that he did not say whether the prostitute inhaled....

I've got a big bottle of talcum powder somewhere....I wonder how much we could make putting small amounts of it into little plastic bags and selling them to "curious" evangelists?

"How can you say to your neighbor, ‘Friend, let me take out the speck in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’s eye." --Luke 6:42

[Bryan]

I read that his church flock is "standing by him." OK, that's fine. Stand by the serial liar who hates gays but really is one, while continuing to hate those of us who don't lie about who we are. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear, my head is spinning....this entire "affair" is nuts!

[Dee]

Voters set to decide on gay marriage ban

The allegations come as voters in Colorado and seven other states get ready to decide Tuesday on amendments banning gay marriage. Besides the proposed ban on the Colorado ballot, a separate measure would establish the legality of domestic partnerships providing same-sex couples with many of the rights of married couples.

The allegations stunned church members.

"It's political, right before the elections," said Brian Boals, a New Life member for 17 years.

Church member E.J. Cox, 25, called the claims "ridiculous."

"People are always saying stuff about Pastor Ted," she said. "You just sort of blow it off. He's just like anyone else in the public eye."

Haggard's accuser said he decided to go public because of the political fight over the amendments.

"I just want people to step back and take a look and say, 'Look, we're all sinners, we all have faults, but if two people want to get married, just let them, and let them have a happy life,' " said Jones, who added that he isn't working for any political group.

Jones, who said he is gay, said he was also upset when he discovered Haggard and the New Life Church had publicly opposed same-sex marriage.

"It made me angry that here's someone preaching about gay marriage and going behind the scenes having gay sex," he said.

Alleged gay trysts involved drugs

Jones claimed Haggard paid him to have sex nearly every month over three years. He said he advertised himself as an escort on the internet and was contacted by a man who called himself Art, who snorted methamphetamine before their sexual encounters to heighten his experience.

Jones said he later saw the man on television identified as Haggard and that the two last had sex in August.

He said he has voice mail messages from Haggard, as well as an envelope he said Haggard used to mail him cash. He declined to make the voice mails available to the Associated Press, but KUSA-TV reported what it said were excerpts late Thursday that referred to methamphetamine.

"Hi Mike, this is Art," one call began, according to the station. "Hey, I was just calling to see if we could get any more. Either $100 or $200 supply."

A second message, left a few hours later, began: "Hi Mike, this is Art, I am here in Denver and sorry that I missed you. But as I said, if you want to go ahead and get the stuff, then that would be great. And I'll get it sometime next week or the week after or whenever."

Haggard, 50, was appointed president of the evangelicals association in March 2003. He has participated in conservative Christian leaders conference calls with White House staffers and lobbied members of Congress last year on U.S. Supreme Court appointees after Sandra Day O'Connor announced her retirement.

After Massachusetts legalized gay marriage in 2004, Haggard and others began organizing state-by-state opposition. Last year, Haggard and officials from the nearby Christian ministry Focus on the Family announced plans to push Colorado's gay marriage ban for the 2006 ballot.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/11/03/evangelical-sex.html

[Eva]

Bryan,

In 1965 Norbert Elias (German sociologist, although he has also studied other things, I believe) wrote a book called "The established and the outsiders". It's more about how newcomers are viewed at in a certain area, etc. It was a theory I had to learn in sociologyclass at the end of the 1980's.

Although this is not exactly the same there was a concept stated in it that was worth remembering. In this situation:

The worst of who are considered 'us' are still seen as better than the best of who are considered 'them'.

And with 'worst' and 'best' I mean people who behave in a certain way that is or isn't accepted by society or certain parts of society.

Maybe this explains it?

Eva

[ponytail]

My friend Edward Field, a great poet, put it best in this line:

"What we deny in ourselves we persecute in others."

I'm delighted to see this hypocrite exposed. Dave has been enjoying hearing about it on Sirius radio while riding to and from work; Michelangelo Signorile has been having a lot of fun going on and on about it.

It amuses me that the right is offended by the media coverage of this. It deserves the coverage -- after all, it's way more lurid than somebody just, say, getting a blowjob. :p

[Dee]

Really I could care less if the man sleeps with goats. I would however like to ask him why he opposes Gay marriage.

Stripping away any media spin on the story, the fact remains that at the very least he had some involvment. He admits to having a "massage" from Jones, and that he bought the meth out of curiosity but he threw it away. Whuttt?

Those things seem out of step for someone who is a religious leader influencing followers. Or maybe I'm just nuts.

U.S. evangelical leader resigns over 'sexually immoral conduct' (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/11/04/evangelical-leader.html)
Saturday, November 4, 2006

A disgraced leader of the evangelical Christian movement in the United States has agreed to resign from his Colorado church after its independent investigative board found him guilty of "sexually immoral conduct."

"We, the Overseer Board of New Life Church, have concluded our deliberations concerning the moral failings of Pastor Ted Haggard," said a statement from the 14,000-member church in Colorado Springs.

Ted Haggard denied the sex allegations made by a Colorado man, but admitted buying drugs from him.

"Our investigation and Pastor Haggard's public statements have proven without a doubt that he has committed sexually immoral conduct."

Haggard — former president of the influential U.S. National Association of Evangelicals outspoken gay marriage opponent and confidant of the Bush administration — admitted Friday he bought methamphetamine and received a massage from Michael Jones, a gay prostitute, who claims Haggard paid him for drug-fuelled sex trysts.

Haggard denied the sex allegations, but said that he did buy the street drug known as meth from the man because he was curious.

"I bought it for myself but never used it," he said Friday. "I was tempted, but I never used it."

The church's statement said the investigation would continue to determine how extensive Haggard's misconduct had been.

The Rev. Ross Parsley will lead the church until a permanent replacement for Haggard is chosen, something that should happen by the end of the year, the statement said. A letter explaining Haggard's removal and an apology from Haggard will be read at Sunday services.

"The language of our church bylaws state that as Overseers we must decide in cases where the Senior Pastor has 'demonstrated immoral conduct' whether we must 'remove the pastor from his position or discipline him in anyway they deem necessary,"' the statement said.

"In consultation with leading evangelical and experts familiar with the type of behaviour Pastor Haggard has demonstrated, we have decided that the most positive and productive direction for our church is his dismissal and removal," it continued.

James Groesbeck, a church elder, said he is glad the investigative board acted quickly.

"I'm saddened by what came out but I think they've done their job," Groesbeck said by telephone.

[Eva]

Well... there goes the neighbourhood...!

Eva

[mixtymotions]

"We have met the enemy and he is us." (Walt Kelly)

[Rkitko]

Honestly, I pity the poor gent and hope he wrestles with his demons and comes out of this a much happier person. It must be awfully internally destructive to hate yourself that much. I wish no ill will on him, but hope (but have no realistic expectations) that he can shake the "gay means sin" brainwashing out of his mind and embrace whoever he really is.

[Bat]

Sorry, RKitko. Much as I pity the guy, I would like to kick him clear across the country for the spewing the venomous words he's put out against gay people. May his soul-search take him to the depths so he can discover the evil he has done. Only then will I forgive him.

[Rkitko]

He's not as bad as it's been made to seem. Certainly no Pat Robertson, Rick Santorum, and definitely not a Fred Phelps. His position on same-sex marriage is clear, and I'm sure he believes homosexuality is a sin, but I don't think he's ever declared anything outrageously negative (some may say declaring my life a sin is indeed outrageous, but since I'm agnostic, it doesn't phase me very much...). And his stance on civil unions is unclear. That could be the description of many a good folk I know and cherish deeply as I would my own family.

Now, I admit I don't like the man. My first introduction to him was through Richard Dawkins' series on "The Root of All Evil?". He was utterly repugnant. His views on evolution and science are archaic at best and his complete closed-mindedness annoyed me. But I still wish no ill will on this man. One need not experience the consequences of his actions and words to become an enlightened individual, however appealing that may be to watch. My only hope is that this experience offer him a "New Life" and insight into his true self and that he may one day be at peace with religion and sexuality.

[DaveM]

I rather hope that at least some members of his congregation will gain a valuable lesson from this experience as well. Then again, fallen evangelists seem to have a way of getting right back up again, which I'll never understand. Wait and see--a year or so from now he'll be in front of another huge flock, spewing the same stuff he was until a few days ago. Hopefully, there will at least be some different faces among the "faithful"--and some conspicuously empty pews.

[Dee]

Ted Haggard: Being Gay is 'so repulsive and dark' (http://bbsnews.net/article.php/20061105195945918)

Sunday, November 05 2006

Disgraced Haggard Tries to Take All Gays With Him

BBSNews Commentary 2006-11-05 -- In a self-serving statement read by another to the congregation at the New Life Church Ted Haggard created, the former evangelical leader seems more worried about the effect on him than others, and he takes a shot at all gays, trying to lump them in with his deceitful, lying behavior.

He goes on to use the term "repulsive" to describe being gay and he claims that being gay is somehow related to dirt:

"I am a deceiver and a liar. There is a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I’ve been warring against it all of my adult life. For extended periods of time, I would enjoy victory and rejoice in freedom. Then, from time to time, the dirt that I thought was gone would resurface, and I would find myself thinking thoughts and experiencing desires that were contrary to everything I believe and teach."

One suspects that the folks at NARTH (National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality) will get a boost from Haggard's claim about being able to repress his homosexuality and actually "rejoice" in it. What a piece of work. This man actively worked to discriminate against gays across the country and in Colorado, then cheated on his wife and enjoyed meth as a sex enhancement, and now he has the gall to tar all gays with his sickness of being a great big liar for his entire adult life.

He also said in his statement that he didn't even have the guts to read himself from the pulpit:

"The public person I was wasn’t a lie; it was just incomplete."

Well you got that right Haggard. You could not reveal that you are gay because then you would have no "public" to deceive with your lies. Certainly not American evangelicals who are taught from the pulpit that being gay is a horrible sin and they will burn in hellfire forever unless they get enough Jesus to stop that horrible gayness.

<snip>

Eight states including Colorado have some form of initiative against equal rights for gay people in the form of marriage. No religion would ever be forced to marry a gay, they don't have to be involved at all. A justice of the peace or a judge would be perfectly acceptable, but these people are so driven by the likes of the fallen Ted Haggard and the still gay hating James Dobson that they will try and deny basic rights to people they simply dislike. There is no rational explanation for this behavior. There is no "protection" of "traditional marriage." This is a huge scam being perpetuated by close-minded people who themselves are being revealed again and again as gay themselves. But since they have been so repressed by their brand of religion they hate themselves, they repress the sexuality they were born with, and they project this hatred onto others with ballot initiatives that would enshrine discrimination against gays into various laws and States constitutions.

At this point, an exit poll of people who vote in favor of these initiatives would reveal people who have been brainwashed into bigotry against gays. Nothing more, nothing less. Thousands of gay marriages have been performed in Massachussetts with no effect on any heterosexual marriage or any religion whatsoever.

It's time that evangelicals start facing the facts from the reality they have before them and the experts at the APA, the effort against gays by evangelicals is based upon their religion and while evangelicals are entitled to their own opinions, they do not have the ability to change reality. Ted Haggard was on a pedestle among them, and he has fallen not because he is gay, but because of his lies and deceit of his family and the congreagation he has misled.

All of the initiatives should be seen for what they are, a cruel device to keep equal rights from people that are being persecuted by a religion driven contituency that simply hates gay people. It is not about protecting marriage, these initiatives are about keeping equal rights from gay people.

Plain and simple, a vote in favor of these marriage initiatives is a vote to discriminate against a community's own citizens.

[ponytail]

I don't feel sorry for Haggard at all. He hasn't shown other people any compassion. He's pretty much the gay equivalent of a Jewish Nazi. He's very sick, and I'm sure it must be a miserable experience to look in the mirror and see him -- but his misery is his choice and his responsibility. I'm not willing to put up with him trying to make it my problem by pointing a persecutory finger at me, or to put up with him projecting it on any other gay person. The abuse he's been dishing out is no more ethical than any other kind of abuse. I suppose he has a right to flagellate himself -- but not others. If he has to pay the price of being exposed as a hypocrite, I think it's about time.

[Rkitko]

With no disrespect, ponytail, since I've heard these comments from many people I've spoken to (consider this a response to all I've heard this from), but because this man showed us no compassion does not mean we get to do the same to him. I'm a believer in the inherent good nature of all human beings. Sometimes it's just buried under rhetoric and, in this case, religious belief. After this experience, if Haggard takes another look at the LGBT community and all he sees is hatred reflecting back at him, I doubt very much that he'd have a change of heart or feel more compassion toward us. Some would say there's little chance of that happening anyway. A slim chance doesn't mean we give up.

Underneath that assertive "actor" personality--and what a good actor he is--I believe is a very weak man. I don't blame him for his opinions or his actions. Yes, some personal responsibility should be accounted for, but in no way does it constitute 100% of the person he is. Indoctrination into religious belief is a powerful thing, especially when you insulate yourself in groupthink. It takes a very strong and courageous person to break free from indoctrination and re-examine the beliefs handed to you. I don't think he's done that, so he's effectively parroting what he's heard elsewhere. I cannot blame him entirely for that.

When slapped in the face, I choose to turn the other cheek and extend my hand. Perhaps I feel compassion for the man because I almost was him, once. I grew up in a particularly religious family and continued to conceal my own homosexuality by mocking others. I mourn that period of my life. If I hadn't hit a turning point, I could have ended up just like Haggard. I think he's put himself through enough of his own hell, I'm not about to add to that by hating the man.

[Dee]

If this incident does nothing more than heighten awareness of the need for equal rights and the need for public figures to stop spouting off against love (and calling it something else) while professing it’s Gods will, then this won’t all be for nothing.

Like Rkitko, I feel compassion for Mr Haggard, and pity. Obviously he’s wrestling with some personal demons, tho now he’s doing it under public scrutiny, and I’m glad he has removed himself from his leadership role. Leaders need to also be role models, and he’s not a very good one.

Not knowing if Mr Haggard is the product of latent repressed homosexual leanings, or if he's known he is Gay all along and has been living “the big lie” by getting married and having children, or if this whole story is politically motivated (tho Mike Jones claims not), I have to say I would still like to ask the man why he is so opposed to Gay marriage. I don't hate him for that. I just want to understand why.

[Marcia Drummergal]

Dee, we have a candidate in our fair state running for congress (again). Her entire campaign commercial for the past 2 weeks has been about her opponent's desire to legalize gay marriage. I mean the ENTIRE ad! She doesn't say one thing about her own platform. And gay marriage isn't on the agenda here. Sadly, Ohio has about the strongest anti-gay legislation in the US. She is using "scare tactics" to energize her religious right-wing base. She disgusts us. Whenever we see her tv ad we say about her opponent, "sounds great! Love her ideas. She'll keep it on the agenda? Cool!"

Marcia, wishing Canada's marriage laws would trickle down south a little faster........:(

[mixtymotions]

Oddly enough, there's never any legalities concerned when a lesbian and a gay man choose to get married. Gay people have always been allowed to get married, so long as they are of the opposite sex. Sounds a bit hypocritical to not allow them to marry a person of the same gender. I'll be at the polls tomorrow, and I will vote in favor of gay rights!

[Bat]

Atta Girl, Mixty! We love voters like you! I wish it were on our ballot, but not this time. Maybe someday we'll be legal in our own country...what a crock, no?

[DaveM]

I, too, stand with my friends on this board and elsewhere, and will vote as best I can to put their second-class citizenship behind us. I believe the day will come when the present bans on gay marriage will seem as ridiculous as bans on interracial marriage do now. Speed the day.

Besides, as an ordained minister of the mail-order variety (but nonetheless quite willing and able perform marriages), I do hope hope for the chance to assist on the special days of my dear friends on this board. I can even take the pictures!

[Dee]

She is using "scare tactics" to energize her religious right-wing base. She disgusts us. Whenever we see her tv ad we say about her opponent, "sounds great! Love her ideas. She'll keep it on the agenda? Cool!"

Marcia, wishing Canada's marriage laws would trickle down south a little faster........:(

LOL I hear ya, Marcia!

Sometimes all you can do is laugh to stay half sane.

[Oak Kitten]

Dave,

Are you a minister with the Universal Life Church? That's the one in which John was "ordained." He lost his certificate, so he went back online recently and got himself re-ordained. He also informed me that he married two of our cats while I was away. He married them to each other, he didn't wed himself to them. . . at least he SAID he didn't. He married the two tabbies - the orange male and the mackrel female. Our two remaining cats are females, and I don't think he'll be marrying them any time soon, since they hate each other. We have nothing against gay cat marriages.

I was about to say thay my husband had a bit too much time on his hands while I was away - but who am I to criticize, after posting this???

Oak

[Eva]

Oak, if your hubby has too much time on his hands, maybe he can marry his flip-flops to eachother. :p They would be of mixed kind (left foot and right foot) so I guess it's allright with the law. I do hope they won't be making little flip-flops though... :eek:

Eva
(who feels strongly about flip-flops; they are not footwear)

[hoops]

eva, i have the footwear for you...you need two pieces of cardboard cut in the shape of your foot and some clear plastic packaging tape...use your imagination and have fun with your new shoes :)
peace
hoops

[Eva]

eva, i have the footwear for you...you need two pieces of cardboard cut in the shape of your foot and some clear plastic packaging tape...use your imagination and have fun with your new shoes :)
peace
hoops
:eek: Hoops, even thinking these things should be illegal. :eek:

Eva

[ponytail]

Rkitko, no offense, but just to clarify -- I don't hate Haggard, I just don't feel sorry for him. If he were to ask forgiveness from the gay community, maybe then I could forgive him -- and, frankly, I think he should. Maybe someday he will.

I grew up Catholic, and went through a period of denial when I was young (a child and a teenager). However, most other kids I encountered viciously persecuted me for being gay even when I didn't yet know it, let alone admit it. This was compounded by the abuse I suffered from my insane mother at home, and from corproral-punishing nuns at school. I was a frail little kid, and every time I turned around, someone was beating the crap out of me, or ridiculing me. I had to put up with it then -- I don't have to put up with it now. As an adult, I don't feel I owe it to ANYONE to take abuse from them,whatever their problems may be (I've gone through quite a bit of hell to learn how to deal with my own problems, and nobody else did that for me.) And I feel abusers need to be confronted with the nature of their behavior, not indulged in it. What this man did to other gay people is not okay with me. It's something for which he needs to make amends. Instead, he's publicly spouting a bunch of self-loathing crap that I find really offensive. Sorry, but that pisses me off. He only feels regret about the suffering being caught has caused him -- he's shown no sign of regretting the suffering his behavior has caused to others. I guess it's like wanting a killer to show genuine remorse, because I consider what Haggard has done to other gay people to be a crime. I don't hate him (I don't know him), but I object to his past and current behavior strongly. I believe he needs to change his ways, but not in the manner he appears to be planning.

[DaveM]

That's the one, Oak Kitten. I've never been asked to marry anything of another species....yet. I suppose I'd consider it--seems only proper that cats, dogs, etc. ought to be able to call their offspring "legitimate". Besides, this would generate more business for lawyers who could sue the "sneaky neighbor's dog" for paternity.

[Eva]

Besides, this would generate more business for lawyers who could sue the "sneaky neighbor's dog" for paternity.
The owner of the dog would probably bring up that the cat pressed her behind in the dogs face repeatedly while he was just saying hello to her. She brought in all onto herself. The slut.

Eva

[hoops]

eva that is the third time on this thread you made me laugh so hard i spewed
peace
hoops

[Oak Kitten]

Oak, if your hubby has too much time on his hands, maybe he can marry his flip-flops to eachother. :p They would be of mixed kind (left foot and right foot) so I guess it's allright with the law. I do hope they won't be making little flip-flops though... :eek:

Eva
(who feels strongly about flip-flops; they are not footwear)

Eva,

I am becoming concerned about your fixation with my husband's flip flops. Were you traumatized by flip flops as a child?

Oak

[DaveM]

I like that idea! If I married my shoes, perhaps one of each pair would stop wandering off somewhere....

Then again, I'm not quite sure that I'm ready to be awakened during the wee hours by the sounds of shoes going at it.

[Eva]

Hoops, Good! :D
Oak, flips flops are just so... flip flops! :eek:

Eva