Heading to the Other Side...

[pulmike]

Redjack's thread about Mr. Ford triggered this:

What do you think "Heading to the Other Side" is like- if its like anything?

Do you have a visual sense of it, perhaps like one of the old masters paintings? Or is it more like the things you know and love here on earth? Or perhaps it is a blank slate, and you have no particular preconception?

To those that have no belief in such things: well, me too, but if I could I would. I'm curious how the land seems to lie for those of faith.

pulmike

[Rkitko]

I'm agnostic. Couldn't tell ya if the "other side" exists or doesn't. I need empirical evidence one way or the other ;) Faith can serve some people well but not me. I hold on to the real, tangible things in life right now.

[pulmike]

Yeah Rkitko, I know what you mean, but I am envious of those who do have some faith and a vision of the hereafter, as a real future and even as a real place. To say the least that would be a sincere comfort in times of stress, trouble, and loss. I really wish I had all that- I just don't, and I can't have it just because I wish I did.

I was just wondering what it is like for those that do.

pulmike

[DaveM]

I'm quite fond of Richard Matheson's view as detailed in "What Dreams May Come" (if you've only seen the movie, PLEASE read the book--it's infinitely better and a completely different story). I'd LIKE it to be true....whether it actually is or not....who can say?

A strange story: during the early 80s, while enduring a period of illness, I had a series of very vivid and powerful dreams. In each, I was walking along the seashore, a stony beach at the base of high cliffs. A woman walked beside me--she had red hair and wore a long white or gray dress that looked like something out of the 19th Century. She was telling me over and over how much she loved me.....at that point, I always woke up. I recall that at times I was eager to return to bed, hoping that the dream would return. And it did, several times.

Some years after that, I learned of and became quite obsessed with an obscure literary figure who fascinates me to this day. Her life was an unsuccessful search for love, she had red hair....and she preferred Victorian fashions (usually gray) throughout her life. She died 33 years before I was born.

At some point I had the dream once again, only this time, having seen photos, I recognized the woman who was walking with me.

Perhaps it means nothing at all, but I'd like to think that she and I would at the very least have a fair number of things to talk about. Could it be that "the other side" for me is a wind-swept stony beach where a redhead waits with her arm outstretched? In all honesty, I rather hope so.

[NinasSpaceChild]

It is something I think about a lot. Sometimes I believe there is something sometimes I don't.

I like the idea that we pick our lives out before we are born. Sometimes I am convinced that I have lived a similar life to this one before.

[pulmike]

Dave, I really envy you that vision . Something simple. A dream come true. With a Lady. Nice one.

SpaceChild- Yours is more like comfort food. Something familiar. Something within your control. Something endless. No worries, mate.

[ponytail]

Of the afterlife beliefs available, the one that appeals to me the most is reincarnation. I like the idea that it's a learning process.

I believe in an afterlife of some sort for a couple of reasons. One, I've had a couple of eerie experiences connected with the deaths of loved ones. Two -- I just can't conceive of nonexistence, and it just FEELS to me like there's going to be something else.

But I don't subscribe to any specific or clear notion of what happens then.

[Randy & Betty in Pa]

Heading for the other side is far less traumatic then one might think... All pain leaves your body... your senses are sharpened and you begin to walk slowly toward a brilliant light... As you ascend a path of gold you are joined by others... All in pure white robes much as you will find you have on...With every step you encounter more and more freed souls and smiling faces of all ages, genders, religious denominarions, sexual preferences, colors, races and so on...then you come to four lines of people waiting with the patiences of prespective saints... Slowly as the line advances it is reduced to only three lanes... Freed souls sneaking by you unwilling to wait in line... This annoys you but thats allright because you know in your currently no longer beating heart that you have the rest of eternity to get even with them... Then you see traffic cones and signs saying to merge into just two lanes.... And the line slows more and more... Others continue to pass you on the right and but into line in front of you... You damn them quietly....Finally after just a short millenium you see it... It's amazing... It's beautiful... It's pure gold... Yes you are finally seeing the structure at the end of this long trail with Saint Redjack standing at the gate whispering to each person as they walk past.... The women smile at his words.... The men frown, but it dosen't matter...Because where you stand in line you know that you are the next to pass through the pearly gates.... You look into the brazen eyes of the Pirate from Pittsburgh... Every nerve tingles with anticipation waiting to hear him speak... Then into your ears you hear his softspoken words....."I told you to get E-Pass Moron..."

And thats the trip to the other side...

Best to all

R. from This side of Pa...

[DaveM]

A minor P.S. to the above: 13 years after the initial series of dreams (1993), I became acquainted with the woman who illustrated my first book. She was of a metaphysical bent, and at some point in our contact she wrote several letters in which she said that my spirit guides were quite determined to make themselves known to me.

I was more than a bit skeptical, but then she began describing them: a bearded man who appeared to be a mystic or a priest who, she said, I had already written about although I did not know it yet. About a year later, while reading a book lent by a Hasidic Rabbi, I encountered the story of Rabbi Yaakov-Yitzhak (Jacob-Isaac), "The Seer Of Lublin" (a fascinating figure, incidentally). In 1989 I had written a 28 page story which literally seemed to come out of nowhere and threw itself onto the paper in less than 48 hours. The story was entitled "The Seer", and several bits of dialogue from my fictional character could have been lifted virtually word for word from quotations attributed to the real-life man. I KNOW that I had no knowledge of Eastern European Jewish mystics prior to to reading the Rabbi's book.

Another, she said, was a young woman who seemed "wispy" and was "like the reed that bends before the storm rather than breaking". The woman of my dream, who seemingly emerged in historical reality, was a lifelong hypochondriac and my personal favorite of her poems closes with the line: "lithe as the bending reed/loving the storm that sways her...."

My illustrator had no knowledge of any of this material prior to her communications with me.

I am convinced beyond doubt (by this and several other experiences) that there is a dimension to human existence far beyond those which we presently understand. Whether that involves an afterlife, whether this existence is "pre-life", or whether something infinitely more complex is at work I have no idea. The intriguing thing about it all is that we're all going to find out sooner or later....

[pulmike]

I like the idea of learning too, Ponytail. Since its something I'm decent at, that would give me a shot. If the gateway were to be something more like spiritual purity, well, my chances would be somewhat less good...
Randy, your surpassing ablility to provide a lighter note is much appreciated. I don't know how to deal with topics like this without a sense of humor either. Without faith its either that or dissolve in a puddle of fear. I've done both. Many times.

It does occur to me that I've already seen enough of a few people I know who are fairly convinced of their own righteous reservations in that place among the clouds. I don't wish them eternal ill, but enough already. If I could chose my ideal eternal existence, some of them wouldn't be near my little corner of heaven. In fact, the more saintly my acquaintence, the more I seem to avoid him/her. God save me from an eternity surrounded by none but the unflaggingly righteous. Is there wine in heaven?



pulmike

[Eva]

I don't believe in whatever god. I am not sure about a form of reincarnation. Would be cool to get another go at live. Well maybe... Some lives I wouldn't want to live. So maybe once is enough. I tend to think we don't get one though. The following is more what I belief:

Our spirit / life leaves our body and slowly fades away, I think. Like it slowly goes up in thin air. Where are the other souls have faded away too. Our body falls apart and becomes part of the soil again. Our spirit / life falls apart too and becomes part of the atmosphere again. I believe in the perpetual wheel of nature. Ergo, we stop existing and at the same time we are everywhere.

Eva

[DaveM]

My belief and hope is that the self-righteous "family values" people who seem deeply troubled by the fact that somewhere in the world, someone is probably having a good time (shamelessly stolen from H.L. Mencken) will have to spend eternity in church. That'll show 'em.

[Bat]

I have gradually become a total non-believer in an afterlife; a little of me tends to be agnostic...of course nobody knows what comes next, if anything.
One thing I'm sure of...if one has to believe in order to get to the next life, call it heaven if you will, then for sure I won't be there. I'll just wait and see, but my brain tells me there is nothing after this. Why should there be?
It seems people must believe there is an afterlife because of an overweening egoistic conviction that they are too important to simply cease to be.:eek: I don't think so.

[Eva]

Exactly Bat. I agree with you. In the greater scheme of things humans are not important at all. We are one lifeform on one tiny planet. There are so many planets. The universe is so big. As a species, we don't matter at all. We matter to us, but that doesn't mean that things are as we want them to be.

Eva

[ponytail]

It seems people must believe there is an afterlife because of an overweening egoistic conviction that they are too important to simply cease to be.:eek:

I'm sure with some people, that's true. In my own case, it's more like just having an intuition about it that I trust. It isn't even that I "must" believe it -- I could choose to not trust it, to deny it. But trusting it seems more honest to me.

[Melba]

Not because I think I have to believe either (as Ponytail put it), but rather an intuition/instinct. I have witnessed too many things that can't just be cast aside as coincidence. I believe in a higher power....a kind, loving higher power, that is. I have always believed that each one of us is here for a purpose/reason and even though some of us may never figure out what that is, it will be left behind for those who love us. How you are remembered and how you touched others will reveal your purpose. I also believe that we don't really die (other than physically) and our spirit moves on to another plane. There is more for us beyond this world. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and if you don't share my view, well that's what makes us unique. Don't get me wrong, I still think death is scary...but I believe it is a very short transition and soon we feel no pain and there is a joyous reunion with those who have gone on before us. Yes, I have thought about the possibility of being completely wrong about this and really, that is a more frightening thought. But I choose to have faith in things unseen. I was raised Catholic, but have parted with a lot of their notions. Some for obvious reasons, some for not. I could say a lot about this subject, but I am not fond of writing short novels....:D

[snakegrl]

I don't think we can "get" it all in one lifetime. For some folks, it may take several lifetimes getting to a place of openness, awareness,acceptance and practice of doing just one thing. And it may take a while do do that thing well before moving on to the next big thing, (or even many little things).
I feel that in each lifetime we are unique personality that can carryover small bits of previous personalities for various reasons, but when we die, these personas are shed, changed like wardrobe at each new incarnation.

Putting on the back burner what happens to us when we die, it's more important to focus on the life we have right now.
Everything depends on what we do in this moment.
And right now, I'm going to eat something.
Hell, someone had to turn this into a food thread.:D

[DaveM]

Well, I really do hope not to wind up the the suicide bomber's palaces and 72 virgins. We'd probably bore the hell out of each other. Now, a palace, 72 Rudies, and funds for frequent LRCs, that would be another thing entirely.

Except that that would probably be hell to Janis....

[Dee]

I have witnessed too many things that can't just be cast aside as coincidence. I believe in a higher power....a kind, loving higher power, that is. I have always believed that each one of us is here for a purpose/reason and even though some of us may never figure out what that is, it will be left behind for those who love us. How you are remembered and how you touched others will reveal your purpose. I also believe that we don't really die (other than physically) and our spirit moves on to another plane. There is more for us beyond this world. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and if you don't share my view, well that's what makes us unique.

Melba,

Of all the posts I've read in this thread, what you wrote (above) is the closest to my own beliefs.

As far as faith in unseen things, well I also agree that's a choice. In fact I consider it the very core of faith. Humility in the face of a power greater than me – a loving force that I would call God – is not only necessary but actually to my benefit.

I do not believe life just “happened” without a causative force behind it all, or without a purpose.

As for “the other side,” well I believe all our questions will be answered then.

I can wait.

[pulmike]

So far, no one seems to have specific concepts of what the afterlife might contain, consist of, look like, etc. For those who have such faith, is the physical construction of the "place" of interest, or perhaps (succinctly) of no interest?

I have no such faith, but if I did, I would want my eternity to be in an eternally interesting place. I don't suppose anything static could literally be eternally interesting, so I would want it to be malleable, according to my interest and will at the moment. I would want adventures there. I would like to be able to leave, and to come back. Most of all I would want some definition or edge to it all. If you can't say you've been to the very edge of eternity- and back, well, then I guess you just can't say it. But it would be so cool...all my friends would be so jealous.....

[DaveM]

Richard Matheson's novel, which I have mentioned before, touches on the concept of "my father's house has many mansions". There is, in the contaxt of the book at least, a heaven for every individual and belief system. The main character finds himself in a pastoral place with endless libraries, cultural events, nature, and good conversation. He also visits one version of hell, along with a place in which people live in the "gated communities" of their dreams, a heaven that is entirely religious, and yes, a very grim place where folks are spending eternity in church. The afterlife, in Matheson's view, is simply the place where one fits best.

I've often wondered if just over the hill was a heaven with trailer parks and 24/7 NASCAR....the Land Of The Eternal Six Pack. Bug zappers optional depending on spiritual growth.

It may be worth considering that heaven and hell could easily be the same place to two different people. I don't find much appeal in the stereotypical angels with wings sitting on clouds playing harps version, or the Biblical reference to streets paved with gold, etc. (so what?). Give me the library any day.

To me, hell would be constant noise, no privacy, and no books. And I'm sorry to say I spent some time there years ago.

[Dee]

So far, no one seems to have specific concepts of what the afterlife might contain, consist of, look like, etc. For those who have such faith, is the physical construction of the "place" of interest, or perhaps (succinctly) of no interest?

It's not that I have no ideas of what an afterlife might be (or involve) Pulmike, it's really that it's unimportant to me while I'm alive here and now.

The “now” is where I work hard to stay every day.

That said, I will add that I do believe we all came from the same source, and will return to that source once we’re finished here.

[Oak Kitten]

My view on the whole question can best be summed up by the Iris Dement song:


Everybody's wonderin' what and where they all came from.
Everybody's worryin' 'bout where they're gonna go when the whole thing's done.
But no one knows for certain and so it's all the same to me.
I think I'll just let the mystery be.

Some say once you're gone you're gone forever, and some say you're gonna come back.
Some say you rest in the arms of the Saviour if in sinful ways you lack.
Some say that they're comin' back in a garden, bunch of carrots and little sweet peas.
I think I'll just let the mystery be.

Everybody's wonderin' what and where they all came from.
Everybody's worryin' 'bout where they're gonna go when the whole thing's done.
But no one knows for certain and so it's all the same to me.
I think I'll just let the mystery be.


Some say they're goin' to a place called Glory and I ain't saying it ain't a fact.
But I've heard that I'm on the road to purgatory and I don't like the sound of that.
Well, I believe in love and I live my life accordingly.
But I choose to let the mystery be.

Everybody's wonderin' what and where they all came from.
Everybody's worryin' 'bout where they're gonna go when the whole thing's done.
But no one knows for certain and so it's all the same to me.
I think I'll just let the mystery be.
I think I'll just let the mystery be.

Very Unitarian sentiments, though I don't know to what (if any) religious beliefs she ascribes.

Oak

[DaveM]

I like that--works for me!

[hoops]

i do believe in heaven, oddly enough i don't believe in hell. i must admit i don't remember my experience with death, i didn't have the white light thing going on that i remember. i also believe in the learning process but that when each person dies their soul, or the good in them connects with everything else in existance, realizing it has more to do with acceptance of it, other then needing it. i believe heaven is something our little minds cannot wrap around and that is why we can't define it. i also belive that all things are there, not just people and i know my mom is a saint, though she will probably never be recognized as one here on earth
peace
hoops

[Beth]

Imagine what life on our planet could be like if all the energy, resources, and focus currently spent on pursuit of eternity were spent on gratitude for this life.

I simply don't need for there to be anything more.