Judge nixes warrantless wiretapping

[RedjackRyan]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060817/D8JI9A281.html

DETROIT (AP) - A federal judge ruled Thursday that the government's warrantless wiretapping program is unconstitutional and ordered an immediate halt to it.

U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor in Detroit became the first judge to strike down the National Security Agency's program, which she says violates the rights to free speech and privacy.

The American Civil Liberties Union filed the lawsuit on behalf of journalists, scholars and lawyers who say the program has made it difficult for them to do their jobs. They believe many of their overseas contacts are likely targets of the program, which involves secretly taping conversations between people in the U.S. and people in other countries.

The government argued that the program is well within the president's authority, but said proving that would require revealing state secrets.

The ACLU said the state-secrets argument was irrelevant because the Bush administration already had publicly revealed enough information about the program for Taylor to rule.

[ponytail]

After a certain recent gay marriage ruling, how nice to hear of a judge making a RATIONAL decision.

[DaveM]

Is it just me, or are there rumblings rising of a mutiny against King George? With his popularity in the toilet, those around him going down with felony counts against them, and his basic policies under court review....it's almost enough to make you feel sorry for the little creep. Almost.

[Rkitko]

One can only hope, DaveM.

I tend to be rather pessimistic about all of this. The upcoming midterm elections will be my second that I'm able to vote in (the other being the previous 2002 midterm elections). So perhaps I'm so new at this that all I've seen is my beloved party beaten back and taking it, with few taking on a more populist point of view. Or maybe I constantly fear that my insularity in this liberal mecca (I live on the Left Coast, after all) somehow alters my perception of the average American. Maybe I give the average voter too much or too little credit. I hope for a revolution that never seems to appear. If this is it, then I'm sorely disappointed.

I've lived in "Middle America" and had high hopes for Ohio in the 2004 elections. I thought things had changed then and that enough people saw King Shrub's idiocy. I was wrong. I sure hope I'm not wrong this time, because once again I'm hoping we can put up a strong candidate in 2008. Just please, democrats of America, do not vote in the primaries on some misguided notion of "electibility" again. Personally, I will never vote for Mrs. Clinton, unless she seriously changes her tune and cuts out the pandering.

</rant>

[Dee]

Is it just me, or are there rumblings rising of a mutiny against King George? With his popularity in the toilet, those around him going down with felony counts against them, and his basic policies under court review....it's almost enough to make you feel sorry for the little creep. Almost.

Wow Dave, you deserve a medal for compassion above and beyond the call ... of something or other.

Try as I might, I have zero compassion for that corrupt murderer. I saw a tabloid cover story the other day claiming Laura had left him.

LOL and yet part of me wonders how she ever puts up with him.

There must be something terribly wrong with me .... :p

[ponytail]

I hate George Bush so much that the ferocity of it actually scares me. I keep wishing some big kinky scandal about him would come to light -- but then the right would suddenly believe in forgiveness like they never did with Bill Clinton. Still, maybe we should all chip in and hire Lorena Bobbit as a life coach for Laura anyway...

[RedjackRyan]

I probably should leave this alone, but i can't understand the hatred people have towards Bush. I wasn't a big fan of Clinton, but i gave him the respect due the office and certainly didn't hate him and truth be told, i'd rather re-elect Bill than have his wife elected. Even Senator Rick Santorum, who i'd personally buy luggage for and help him pack it up on his way out of the office he holds, I don't hate and he's personally screwed me over.

I can understand dislike and loathing of his policies and administrations agenda, but why the hatred of the man?

[ponytail]

I probably should leave this alone, but i can't understand the hatred people have towards Bush. Even Senator Rick Santorum, who i'd personally buy luggage for and help him pack it up on his way out of the office he holds, I don't hate and he's personally screwed me over.

I can understand dislike and loathing of his policies and administrations agenda, but why the hatred of the man?

I don't know. I can only answer for myself, not "people," but -- I just feel that way. It's not rational, and it's not a choice. I can work on letting go of a feeling when it comes up if I believe it's harmful -- but that's managing it, not eliminating it. I can't just decide I don't feel that way. I was horrendously abused as a kid, and I have more issues than Newsweek, which is why I've been in therapy my whole adult life and use practices like meditation and journaling. They help -- but it's not magic. I can't just press a button and make a feeling go away. And pretending I can, when I genuinely can't, would just be denial. It's better that I know and can communicate what's going on with me. Does that answer your question?

[RedjackRyan]

Thanks for an honest answer, Jack. I can accept that for whatever reason he just rubs you the wrong way. Doesn't have to be rational, gut feelings rarely are :)

[Bat]

I can understand dislike and loathing of his policies and administrations agenda, but why the hatred of the man?

I feel the same way as Ponytail, and I certainly wasn't abused in any way, ever...but Bush is a liar, and, plain and simple, I hate liars. No excuses, but if someone lies us into something as horrendous as a war, it generates an intense hatred that is frightening.

It goes something like this:
1. You can 't trust a liar.
2. You fear that which you can't trust.
3. Fear engenders hatred (to some degree).
4. I hate liars.
5. Bush is a consummate liar.
6. Ergo, I hate Bush. (to the degree that he has sent our children to slaughter through his lies, among other egregious lies. That's a lot to hate about...like nth degree).
7. Moral: Don't ever lie to me.

[Rkitko]

Well said, Bat! Bush and the position he holds demands no respect because, I believe, he has abused his power and position. He has made a mockery of our democracy by ignoring the laws of the land (warrantless wiretaps) and abusing the signing statement privilege. My international friends constantly question why there isn't a powerful uprising of civil unrest due to our leader's actions. I can't offer them a valid answer.


i'd rather re-elect Bill than have his wife elected.

On that much, sir, we agree. I'd love to see a woman in the whitehouse, but she isn't the one I want to see there.

[ponytail]

I wish we could have Bill back. He wasn't perfect, but his appallling successor has made me appreciate how good we had it with him.

[hoops]

i think at this point it wold take a miracle to undercut ole george and have it stick. and i think he's paying off someone to keep these miracles from happening.peace...pleasehoops

[Bat]

My international friends constantly question why there isn't a powerful uprising of civil unrest due to our leader's actions. I can't offer them a valid answer.


There is a tremendous anger building here among the people...you can feel it, you can almost see it in the short fuses so many are exhibiting in everyday life. This will most certainly be transmitted to the voting in November, and there had better be no hanky-panky at the election stations this time, because the people finally know better, I hope! I have talked to no one who wants the present state of things to continue...NO ONE! The Republicans are finally wising up to the fact that this is no longer their Daddy's GOP...the extreme right wingers are quite fascist in their approach to government, and the moderates are finally getting sick of it, even going so far as to say they don't want Bush or anyone else high up coming to stump for their re-election.
I think, personally, that, with few exceptions, the whole dratted Congress should be thoroughly cleaned out, and a few new laws governing their conduct should be put in place, concerning lobbying, ethics, etc.
It is my personal opinion that people should not make an obscene amount of money by being our representatives on the hill...in fact, it might be a good idea to limit their terms as we limit the presidential terms. There is so much housecleaning needed to be done, I wouldn't know just where to start, but I know we must do something to start the ball rolling towards good honest government. Our system has many flaws, but with a little brushing up it could still be a good one.
The problem is, people go into politics to make money, or it ends up that way...quite a far cry from the founding fathers' donating their entire personal fortunes toward the establishment of this good old USA!
All I know is, that if something isn't done to clean up the way some of their dirty little minds work, we will make the fall of the Roman Empire look like a raindrop in the dust.

[RedjackRyan]

Bat the only thing i'd take issue with is the lying.. Show me a politician and i'll show you a liar, thats not Mr Bush's exclusive playground. If their lips are moving, they are lying.

Thank you all for lending your perspectives..


As to fixing the system... you'd have to start fresh.. throw all the bums out... I'd make it 4years maximum terms for President on down.. and you get 1 shot at it. Get in, get it done, get the hell out and let someone else have a go. No more Lifetime senators, no more career politiicians.. In and Out, and don't bother to unpack...you won't be here long enough for that.

[Rkitko]

Bat the only thing i'd take issue with is the lying.. Show me a politician and i'll show you a liar, thats not Mr Bush's exclusive playground. If their lips are moving, they are lying.

I'd generally agree, though there's a spectrum of lies. I think what people mean here by "lying" is the most egregious of offenses here--the big one: knowing certain information may not be correct or is incorrect, yet reporting it as fact in order to support your arguments (in this case, for going to war).

That's much different than, say, a lie during a campaign that promises something the politician never intends to follow through on--while still offensive, it's not so bad if one is to tolerate lies in order to have politicians.

I take issue most with Bush's "war on terror" that he has clinged to ever since 9/11. It's a misnomer; there is no war on terrorism. The enemy is not a nation, a single person, a religion, or even an ideology. It is the culmination of foreign (and domestic! But you don't see the US bombing itself, now do ya?) acts of violence directed toward our country, probably because of Things We've Done in the Past that weren't received well "over there." To many people watching us Do What We're Doing today, we may seem like the "terrorists," not the liberators we were told we would be greeted as. I am absolutely certain that we're just generating more hatred toward us in this conflict (yes, conflict--not a war) and we'll see a new breed of "terrorist" (oh, I loathe using that word now--it's so overused) in the future that grew up surrounded by all this action, directing hatred toward us in 20 years for our actions today.

I see this all as playing a role in our larger social "manifest destiny." It's a conflict of cultures, really, and we can't leave well enough alone. The British tried to "civilize" the aboriginees of Tasmania and wiped out an entire race of people (nearly: like Native American tribes, people can be considered aborigine if they possess a certain percentage of aborigine heritage). We're, in general, trying to push our cultural and social values on those we "liberate," expecting them to put on powdered wigs and play nice in parliament. I'd even go so far as to say we're nostalgic for past US history--the founding father's era, in particular--and that's one motivation for creating this democratic sockpuppet in Iraq.

On policies across the board, on opinions of every topic, and on table manners (did you see that video of him talking to Tony Blair? Chew with your mouth closed, Mr. President!), I disagree with the current president. Vehemently.

Another $0.02 (Must be getting close to a $1 now, aren't I? :p )