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Marcia Drummergal
08-04-2006, 11:42 AM
This appeared in today's Boston Globe

ELLEN GOODMAN
Backward logic in the courts
By Ellen Goodman | August 4, 2006

NOW I got it. After hours spent poring over Washington state's Supreme Court decision upholding the ban on same-sex marriage, I've finally figured it out. The court wasn't just ruling against same-sex marriage. It was ruling in favor of ``procreationist marriage."

This is the heart of the opinion written by Justice Barbara Madsen: ``Limiting marriage to opposite-sex couples furthers procreation, essential to survival of the human race, and furthers the well-being of children by encouraging families where children are reared in homes headed by the children's biological parents." In short, the state's wedding bells are ringing for procreators.

Well if that's true, isn't it time for the legislatures in Washington and in New York, which issued a similar ruling against same-sex marriage this summer, to follow their own logic? If marriage is for procreation, shouldn't they refuse to wed anyone past menopause? Shouldn't they withhold a license, let alone blessings and benefits, from anyone who is infertile? What about those who choose to be childless? Nothing borrowed or blue for them. Indeed the state could offer young couples licenses with sunset clauses. After five years they have to put up (kids) or split up.

Of course the states' other interest is in families ``headed by the children's biological parents." Why then give licenses to the couples who are raising 1.5 million adopted children? We can ban those blended families like, say, the Brady Bunch. And surely we should release partners from their vows upon delivery of their offspring to the nearest college campus.

This is where the courts' reasoning leads us, and I use the word ``reasoning" loosely. If anything, these two decisions are proof that the courts and the country are running out of reasons for treating straight and gay citizens differently.

Since the landmark Supreme Court ruling in Lawrence v. Texas in 2003, gay sex is no longer a crime. Today, if some straight couples cannot or do not procreate, some gay couples do, using all the old and new technologies. Gays aren't banned from fertility clinics. They aren't the slam-dunk losers in divorce custody fights. Even Arkansas has just ruled that gay couples can become foster parents. And New York and Washington, the very states now refusing to let gays marry, have supported gay adoption.

Against this evolving backdrop, the courts had to reach pretty far to find some explanation for banning gay marriage other than old-fashioned discrimination. Even so -- as Justice Mary Fairhurst wrote in her Washington dissent -- neither court actually explained why ``giving same-sex couples the same right that opposite-sex couples enjoy [would] injure the state's interest in procreation and healthy child rearing." After all, as Chief Judge Judith Kaye of New York wrote in her dissent, ``There are enough marriage licenses to go around. . . . No one rationally decides to have children because gays and lesbians are excluded from marriage."

I am a citizen of Massachusetts where gay people have been getting married for two years without the sky falling. (The ceiling on the Big Dig has fallen, but that's another story.) The furor over the decision here produced a national backlash that has scared a lot of judges straight. The current decisions reek of that anxiety.

These judges seem ready to bow to any legislation on this hot-button subject that isn't certifiably nuts. For example, the American Academy of Pediatrics reports that: ``There is ample evidence to show that children raised by same-gender parents fare as well as those raised by heterosexual parents." The Washington court still determined that ``the legislature was entitled to believe" the opposite. The legislature's entitlement overruled gay entitlement to marry.

Columbia Law School's Suzanne Goldberg says, ``It's hard to believe that intelligent judges believe what they are writing. The idea that exclusion of same-sex couples from marriage could be justified by the way an egg and sperm might meet is illogical."

The backlash against gay marriage has produced strong passions and weak arguments. It's no longer enough to state in court that marriage has always been for straight couples, ergo it should be only for straight couples. This time the courts ended up arguing on procreationist grounds, pretty shaky legal terrain.

``It is the exclusive and permanent commitment of the marriage partners to one another, not the begetting of children, that is the sine qua non of civil marriage," wrote Chief Justice Margaret Marshall in the Massachusetts decision that extended marital rights to gays and brought conservative wrath down on her head.

Marshall has been demonized as an ``activist judge" -- a label pinned on the author of any ruling you dislike. Now, in an anxious attempt to put their courts into neutral, judges in Washington and New York have thrown logic into reverse.

dragonlady
08-04-2006, 11:57 AM
And judges in Georgia have disagreed with their own constiturion. They struck down their marriage ban law that was being fought on the basis of a referendum not being allowed to cover more than one subject.

The referendum that was passed there banned gay marraige AND civil unions. The court apparently can't count or considers gay marriage and civil unions to be one subject as there were obviously two subjects on that ballot but the referendum vote was upheld anyway.

VA is putting a Constitutional Amendment referendum on the ballot in November that will not only ban gay marriage (shich is already banned), but civil unions, domestic partnerships and ANY contract that puports to bestow the rights of mariage. That means Wills, Durable Medical Power of Attorney, Fiscal Power of Attorney, Joint Tennacy rights, etc and etc.....this is already the law here they want it in the Constitution now.

A law like this that passed either in Ohio or Nebraska deteriooated the domestic violence laws there to the point that they are pratically unenforceable unless you are married so this won't only effect GLBT folks this time around.

-di

Dar
08-04-2006, 01:19 PM
GEESH!!

That reminds me of the response Peggy's dad gave her years and years ago when she first came out to him. He said he couldn't approve of her relationship because people are met to partner so that they can procreate.
She replied, 'Oh so you and X (the woman he married after divorcing P's Mom)
are still trying to have children?' LOL He quickly changed his tune, and incidentally considered me his daughter until the day he died.

Dee
08-04-2006, 04:12 PM
Even so -- as Justice Mary Fairhurst wrote in her Washington dissent -- neither court actually explained why ``giving same-sex couples the same right that opposite-sex couples enjoy [would] injure the state's interest in procreation and healthy child rearing."

What load of corn. How many hetero married parents have I seen destroying their children's lives by being just simply lousy parents? Too many to count. Blaming that on gay unions is beyond reason. And then some.

Janis and Pat,

Please come to Canada, where you're still married. :)

Eva
08-04-2006, 04:26 PM
yes because the world needs more people
Ah yes, that too... :rolleyes:

Eva

DaveM
08-04-2006, 05:38 PM
I cannot help but be reminded of an exchange from a Monty Python sketch:

"Ah.....bloody Catholics! You know every time they have sex, they have to have a baby."

"Why, what do you mean, darling? We've got two children, and we've had sex twice...."

This is not exactly relevant to anything, but Americans on disability (6.5 million plus on SSI alone) are also essentially barred from marriage, "civil union", or anything that involves joint property rights. Not exactly barred by law, mind, but by the fact that getting married leads to both partners' assets being counted by the Powers That Be as the assets of each. To receive SSI, one can own a home, a car worth less than $3600, and $3000 worth of personal property, which includes every penny you have in the bank, the cash in your wallet, and your home furnishings. No savings accounts or retirement plans allowed here!

It seems to me that a coalition of the various groups that are prevented from marrying under current US law might be able to accomplish some good. The more numbers, the greater the visibility, and therefore the greater likelihood that even a few Archie Bunkers just might be moved to realize that, by golly, people are just like us.

hoops
08-04-2006, 09:13 PM
i don't know about the rest of them but i have a lot less than that and it irks me every time someone rants about abusing the system. i know it happens, but not in my life. i don't care that i own nothing, i don;'t want to own anything, but dang it, i'd like to have love. sorry , talkin

DaveM
08-05-2006, 02:02 AM
And you're speaking the truth, Hoops.

I'll take true love over a piece of paper any day, but not when the impossibility of getting that piece of paper renders me a second-class citizen. There are, if I recall correctly, more than 140 legal benefits to being married which those who cannot marry can never have.

But I'd still settle for love alone, if it ever came along (mind, it has, but with obstacles that are insurmountable for the moment). Love with all the benefits of love would be so much better for us both, should we ever be able to do something about it.

Rkitko
08-05-2006, 10:13 AM
Methinks you missed a 0, DaveM :)
About 400 state benefits, and around 1,000 federal benefits.

DaveM
08-05-2006, 02:25 PM
Yep, I did. Appreciate the correction.

Robert the Bard
08-07-2006, 07:10 AM
...that some day, people would learn to mind their own business. I guess I'm an oddity amongst American heterosexuals, I really believe it doesn't matter who gets married, and why. These kinds of rulings, along with ID in schools, are the reason that people like me become disillusioned with the current government. Freedom of religion, so long as it's this one! Make no mistake, this isn't a legal decision, while the legallity is going to take a while to decide, this is a religious decision. It offends Christians to think that the bane of their God, gay people, should be allowed to use the word that describes their sharing of vows, and the sacrament that goes with it. Gods forbid that two gay Christians should want to marry. According to Christian opinions that I've been reading around the web, I've come to the conclusion that there's no such thing. God hates gay people, so they can't follow Him. I'd like to know where Christ said that, though, because while I am not Christian, I have studied the Bible, and I've never seen that. In the meantime, we are all stuck with "legislated morallity", even if it's just the morality of a few. At some point, somebody will have to take the "Moral Majority" to task, and I hope that when it happens, I get to be a part of it.

ponytail
08-07-2006, 12:12 PM
Dave just went away for a week, to a clinic for choral conductors. We very rarely spend a night apart -- but once a year he goes to this thing, and I'm reminded again of how lost I am without him. We've been together since 1978. Our relationship has outlasted half of heterosexual marriages, and I challenge any gay marriage opponent to find any two people more "married" than we are. I'm expecting his daily call at dinnertime, and you better believe I'll be sitting right next to the phone waiting for it.