What is "Canned hunting"

[WVRose]

Since Janis has such "humanatarian interests" I thought everyone might be interested in what some friends from "over the pond" are working to end! Please read on for complete info and how YOU could help:

“Canned hunting” is one of the most appalling types of trophy hunting. Wealthy 'sportsmen' are provided with tame, docile or drugged animals in an enclosed area. The hunters pay large amounts of money to kill these defenceless animals by shooting them with either a bow and arrow or a gun to the stomach, so that the skin is not damaged. The animals - including lions, pumas, cheetahs and wild dogs - are often reared especially for the purpose, in intensive conditions, solely to be killed. (There are now more than 3,500 lions in captivity in South Africa, and the number of helpless victims grows by the day). Even endangered animals on the CITES list are bred in captivity to be hunted. This highly lucrative industry would not flourish without the support of the European and American hunters, who are not only cruelly exploiting wildlife but are also endangering conservation policies which will, eventually, have a serious impact on South Africa's heritage.

During his presentation, Chris will be talking to us about how we in the UK can help to transform conservation services in South Africa. He’ll suggest what we can do to get our own government to ban the import of African wildlife trophies, and to make aid to Africa subject to environmental conditions - including an effective ban on all trophy hunting. He’ll ask the UK to stop giving money to pro-hunting organisations. The presentation may be about canned lions in South Africa, but the problem is universal, as is the solution. And all of us can help. (For further information, see Chris’ website: www.cannedlion.co.za

[DaveM]

This sort of thing is fairly popular among the "we're better than you" element in the United States. Notably, our Vice-President is fond of the sort of "hunting" in which he and his buddies stand on a hillside with a shotgun while someone off to the side releases a bunch of pen-raised quail, grouse, or ducks for them to shoot it. Utterly ridiculous, pointless, and cruel.

The truly sad thing is that these "private hunts" are not subject to most game laws, so there is no supervision, no bag limits. Basically, it's a firing squad for animals.

Not sure about "big cats", but I do know that a certain amount of "canned hunting" involving North American big game goes on. I've often thought that the participants should be allowed to go down to the stockyard and shoot a cow or two. It would be every bit as "sporting".

[hoops]

it's a disgusting thing to think that people are so self absorbed.. i mean, why not play a video game and save the world so wild life ? OR better yet send these freaks in with no weapons and see how they fare...why do humans belive they run things?

[aabram]

I was at the talk and have the book Chris Mercer wrote called "for The Love of Wildlife". Advocates for Animals, for whom I am a volunteer and of which I am a member, promoted the talk, which was heartrending. After weeks of assorted filing and other AWFUL topics, I emerged a humbled person and a new vegan!!! Please go to our website,www.advocatesforanimals.org to find out more and for a mugshot of yours truly!!!! You can also become a member there..(there, Judy, found it at last, and thanks for posting that..I've since got my act together with the new message boards!!)

[snakegrl]

Here in Kentucky, a new law was recently passed that allows "canned hunting" with coyotes. The idea is to deal the"pest problem" that coyotes present. After all, they may drag off the children, eat the dog, which has every right to run around the neighborhood making puppies, and generally terrorize the populace, putting on damper on suburban sprawl.
Yee-ha. Break out the bean dip and aerosol cheese. Weeuns is gonna have us a ho-down.

[Dee]

Sick! But only slightly sicker than keeping any animal in captivity (except for house companion pets). In my opinion.

[Gigglepottomus]

I am so tired of hearing about this type of animal cruelty. People complain but nothing ever changes. Animals have been exploited abused and driven from their homes for far to long. Its time to do something about it. What we need is an organization like PETA or the WWF but unlike those organizations is capable of making a real change. What we need is a new organization. I suggest we call it the ATA (Arm The Animals) organization. Imagine a cool celebrity spokesman like Morgan Freemon. It might look something like this.
http://shutter03.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/06/003/76/E2/2C/A0/MjScELOq+JsAhmyYxBQbYfdOjxmsASe-0098.jpg
Hello folks my name is Morgan Freemon. You may recognize me from such films as The Shawshank Redemption and Million Dollar Baby. Movies give us an escape from the real world. But unlike us animals don't have an escape from the real world. They are exploited abused driven from there homes hunted and killed. Here at the ATA we believe the only way to give these creatures a real fighting chance is to arm them to the teeth. Imagine a world where Armadillo's carry AK-47's and Beavers brandish Bazooka's. You may think twice before you bulldoze that sanctuary to build a Walmart. Family hunting trips would become more like going into combat and lets face it if the animals are shooting back it sort of takes the fun out of hunting. So join me and the ATA as we arm the animal kingdom. Here are some examples of the work we have already accomplished in the hills of West Virginia.
http://shutter04.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/04/00A/7B/AB/5F/AD/xFcswDMEmdHMYCBnkP+eEhLjCK8rh8kB0249.jpg
So please show your support for the ATA and donate your time and money to a cause that is really making a difference in the animal kingdom. Remember a deer is just a deer but a deer with a sniper riffle is a force to be reckoned with.

[snakegrl]

Yeah, we could donate all confiscated weapons to them and set up training schools.

[Dee]

Here are some examples of the work we have already accomplished in the hills of West Virginia.

LOL Sign me up!

[Eva]

Yes, but what if some ass shoots the American vice president?? :eek:

But seriously... I find it horrible how people treat animals. No respect for nature, no respect for living creatures. I think eating an animal is one thing. But to make it suffer without need is stupid, cruel and aimless. I don't understand the so called 'fun' in hunting.

If you want to hunt, grab a knife (not a rifle), get into the forest and eat the animal after you've killed it. And if you have only your bare hands and a knife the animal at least has a fighting chance. See who wins... My bet is on the lion or the wild boar then.

I also find it awful how pets or animals like goats, horses and donkeys get treated in some countries. Chaned to a tree, being in the hot sun or wind and rain all day. They get beaten and they don't get enough to eat or drink. Kittens and puppies get drowned.

Humans are so arrogant.

Eva

[Des]

I wonder how many animal rights activists eat meat. I also wonder how many have used rat poison.

Is it acceptable to eat meat, yet object to animal death caused by human pleasure?
Is eating a nice red juicy steak pleasure or is it a necessity for what we need?

Acceptable or hypocritical?

[aabram]

Nice to see someone taking this seriously, and while lightneartedness is good, there is a very real need for us to BE serious, and to go on the various websites to find out more. Advocates for Animals works with all these Organisations mentioned eg, PETA, WWF, CIWF etc to secure a more humanistic approach to suffering in the animal world. Who are we to exploit these beautiful creatures. Weren't we only meant to SHARE a planet with them??? Now we seem to use and exploit them for entertainment, food, clothing, testing, and hunting, canned hunting being the worst form of this, and other uses. These are sentient, intelligent beings who deserve better. If you love your cat, dog or whatever, you will help all this by going on those Websites and learning more about it

[snakegrl]

Is it hypocracy to eat meat yet protest the slaughter of baby seals?
I think that depends. Tibetan Buddhist monks prepare and eat meat. I've seen pictures. They do so because the roof of the world is not plentiful with food sources. So, ask The Dahli Lamma if he is a hypocrite. Some people, like myself, don't do well at all without animal protein. Yet, I have risked life, limb, job and jail time to defend an animal. The important thing to me is intention.
It's the difference between setting a book down or tossing it on the floor.
Could I kill an animal as I looked into its face? I would have to be starving and with no other food.
All life has a consciecness. How do Westerners know beyond any
doubt that picking a tomatoe does not cause that plant pain.
Following that logic, the mere act of eating causes suffering to another.
So, should I take myself off the planet? Of course not.
I think an answere to the question is each person has a choice do do what they feel is best for them and defend those who do not have a choice.

[Des]

I think an answere to the question is each person has a choice do do what they feel is best for them and defend those who do not have a choice.

Yet the meat we eat does not have a choice.

[aabram]

Well said, Des. Now let's get back to the subject this thread is all about..viz Canned Hunting. This is where the rich pay vast sums of money so that they can get their "trophy". Animals are farmed, drugged and then caged ready for the kill. They often die in great pain. Trouble is there IS no law to stop it, and the very conservation of wildlife in Africa is under threat. Below is a quote from the Website.

"First, the proposal seeks to obtain approval for treating wildlife as alternative livestock, on the ground that such use falls within the (elasticised) definition of 'conservation.' (detail deleted)

Second, the proposal seeks to draw a distinction between canned hunting and ethical hunting. Such a distinction is, in the first place completely irrelevant to issues of biodiversity preservation. The attempt to infiltrate hunting industry notions of 'fair chase' into biodiversity protection is transparently flawed. For biodiversity purposes, does it matter one jot whether the animal victim is standing in one hectare, one hundred hectares, or one thousand hectares, when it is shot?

However, the main objection we have on this issue is that all hunting in South Africa is canned to a greater or lesser extent. Read the article on our website about the hunting of the Rhino in Kuruman municipal game park to see what we mean. Going down to the local game auction to buy fifty eland and then cramming them into a small hunting camp of, say, two hundred hectares to be hunted out, is not conservation. It is captive breeding for commercial purposes – like fish farming. Again, real conservation is a holistic thing"

My second point is this. Is ANY hunting ethical........is ANY farming ethical, and please remember, I don't eat meat or fish. It's just one of the many cancer-causing elements in our dangerous world.

[snakegrl]

Des, good point. both sides of this touchy issue can be debated equally well.
And, like religion and politics, these topics can become heated very quickly and so,should be treated with care.
There are no easy answers.
How do we humans justify our existence on this planet when our presence causes suffering to so many forms of life?
Agi-buisness kills countless bunnies,foxes,birds, ect... so that we can eat vegetables.
Our cottonclothes are produced by heavy use of pesticides, herbicides and defolliants. Should we go naked?
There are too many humans. Should we invoke decimation?
The list goes on.
So, what to do?
All I know is that I am here and chose to work at being more thoughtful ,aware and responsible.
I can't be a vegitarian. My body won't have it.
But, I can refuse to participate with mass industry as often as possible, help people overcome their fear of nature, teach by example and create a better environment for other creatures.
I choose to protect another, regaurdless of the risk, because it has to be done, go to the wall with anyone willing to do the same, despite differing views.

[aabram]

No, your body doesn't want it or won't accept it, because it's something you're not used to. Think again, my friend. Look at all the facts again, and then tell me when you want to die from cancer. There is a way of coexisting with animals and not exploiting them the way we do all over the world. No we can't be perfect, but at least we can try.

[Des]

Quite agreed Aabram, our bodies will always take time to adjust to whatever we introduce to it, as it knows no different.

I have an interesting scientific report somewhere, which promotes the concept of animal emotion when killed, being exposed in a phantom sense when eaten by a human, if we believe the theory that memory of emotion is stored in the DNA of tissue and then once consumed by humans, is later distributed among our DNA tissue. Hence the reason why the percentage of cancer cases by vegans / vegetarians is virtually non existent to that of meat eaters.

[Dee]

Anyone here know of the work of Dr Temple Grandin?

"Stunning an animal correctly will provide better meat quality. Improper electric stunning will cause bloodspots in the meat and bone fractures. Good stunning practices are also required so that a plant will be in compliance with the Humane Slaughter Act and for animal welfare. When stunning is done correctly, the animal feels no pain and it becomes instantly unconscious. An animal that is stunned properly will produce a still carcass that is safe for plant workers to work on."

"Dr. Grandin is a designer of livestock handling facilities and an Associate Professor of Animal Science at Colorado State University. Facilities she has designed are located in the United States, Canada, Europe, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand, and other countries. In North America, almost half of the cattle are handled in a center track restrainer system that she designed for meat plants. Curved chute and race systems she has designed for cattle are used worldwide and her writings on the flight zone and other principles of grazing animal behavior have helped many people to reduce stress on thier animals during handling"

http://www.grandin.com/

[snakegrl]

I got a book written by her for my sweetie and as soon as she gets done reading it, I will too. It's fascinating that she recovered from autism as well as her ability to talk to animals. There is an animal communicator, Kate Bast, who I have worked with on a few occasions. She relayed too much specific information for me to think she is full of poo. She also has a website (google her name) and teaches workshops.

[aabram]

OK. I've checked out these Websites, and found these of some use, but not enough for me to be convinced about animal slaughter. The points to make here are 1) that in a perfect world, no animal would feel pain, fright or suffer in any way whatsoever, but this is not a perfect world.... Neither does this answer the question as to why in a large percentage of cases the animals are not stunned properly, the slaughter staff carry on regardless, and the animal dies in the most painful way possible.

2) Halal Meat
I didn't want to go into this, but I feel I have to now. The animals are not stunned, and the cut is not always as sharp as it should be. This results in the animal bleeding to death, often for 5 minutes or or longer in extreme agony, and we say we are a world of caring people....?????

[snakegrl]

As long as there are massive populations, there will be mass slaughter to feed them.
Like prostitition, it is going to happen.
I think the best we can do is damage control.
Talk to the wallets of agri-buisness, livestock industries,ect.
If they can be shown a more humane method that will save them money, I bet they will go for it. This seems to be what Dr. Temple Grandin is able to accomplish from the information I have.
The bottom line with buisness is money. Good luck appealing to people's concience in big industry.
Show people a different way to get what they want. Sometimes, it's all one can do.

[aabram]

So you didn't read my earlier replies then, in which I explained all that is needed for a more caring society is Vegetarianism/Veganism....My daughter and I BOTH feel better for it, and leaving those poor animals alone...The rubbish see on your supermarket shelves known as meat is farmed. Chickens are killed at 6 WEEKS, already damaged for life - er... WHAT life. Genetically enhanced and pumped full of antibiotics. The so-called "effect" from antibiotics from this practice on disease is reduced by eating fish and meat. The environment is harmed too. Global warming is probably far more likely to be caused by farming than by anything else. Isn't it time we started looking AFTER our planet, because if we don't there'll BE no planet to look after.

[snakegrl]

Ya'll ever get the feeling your waisting your time? Next subject please...

[Des]

Ya'll ever get the feeling your waisting your time? Next subject please...

lol snakegrl:D

[snakegrl]

Thank you Des,

[aabram]

So, can we get back to the point in question now, please. Canned Hunting. I haven't scanned anything today yet from the book, but as a member of a caring Animal Charity, we HAVE to speak up for the animals who are suffering because of us. Because we are seemingly so selfish as to assume that animals were put here for OUR benefit alone, we could have overlooked our own faults and become complacent in the process. Advocates for Animals was set up as long ago as 1912 to pull us up about this. Here is an extract from the introductory leaflet....

"However strongly individuals feel, alone they can do little to stop the suffering, pain, cruelty and indiscriminate killing of defenceless fellow creatures. But a unified body can"

"Advocates for Animals is one of the UK's leading animal protection organisations. We envision a world in which people change their relationship with animals from one of exploitation and harm ato one of respect and compassion. We promote the protection of animals through investigations, high-profile caampaigns, public education and political lobbying."

It is therefore logical to conclude that most people, me included - until the beginning of March - act like they do through ignorance. Changing this involves going to websites and finding out more about the various issues. Speaking up for them however, becomes alot harder when you realise it involves a little bit more than just reading a book. Not every campaign involves protest outside Parliament. Writing to your MP, sending postcards is just as acceptable...getting involved. Being there because you want to be, not because you have to be.

[aabram]

Just noticed that as far back as May, I was getting upset about broiler chickens....Hey, we need to look at this again...lol :D

[ponytail]

This is the first time I've seen this thread. I brought this subject up in a thread recently about the guy from Montgomery Gentry killing a tame bear in this type of situation. I didn't know it was called "canned hunting." That's a good, clear name for a really disgusting practice.

Too bad there isn't a Mr. Burns among these jaded rich folks to invite them all over for a garden party, lock the estate, and then say, "Smithers, release the hounds."

[DaveM]

Forgive me for straying, but I do have to wonder why Halal slaughtering is mentioned on this thread but not Kosher slaughtering, which is the same technique? Cruelty is not politically correct regardless of who inflicts it.

Just to add some history: both Halal and Kosher slaughtering methods were, in their day, the most humane techniques available and also, in assuring that the animal was well-bled, alleviated some health concerns as well. Neither, obviously, is any longer the case.

To stray back to the thread....I rather wonder how many "canned hunters" would enjoy going out back of a barn and shooting a cow? That's about how "sporting" the average "canned hunt" is. Perhaps they'd enjoy having ol' Bossy's head stuffed and hung on the wall of their den/office. That, at least, would render it obvious how ridiculous their idea of "hunting" is. Silly, silly people.

[aabram]

Forgive me for straying, but I do have to wonder why Halal slaughtering is mentioned on this thread but not Kosher slaughtering, which is the same technique? Cruelty is not politically correct regardless of who inflicts it.

Sorry, Dave M ... just a slip of the brain... Totally forgot to include it in my haste to post

Just to add some history: both Halal and Kosher slaughtering methods were, in their day, the most humane techniques available and also, in assuring that the animal was well-bled, alleviated some health concerns as well. Neither, obviously, is any longer the case.

...and the Newspaper Articles in the AFA files confirm that

To stray back to the thread....I rather wonder how many "canned hunters" would enjoy going out back of a barn and shooting a cow? That's about how "sporting" the average "canned hunt" is. Perhaps they'd enjoy having ol' Bossy's head stuffed and hung on the wall of their den/office. That, at least, would render it obvious how ridiculous their idea of "hunting" is. Silly, silly people.

And this ISN'T going to stop in the near future. Hey...wonder if I can get my Nephew interested in this thread. Worth a try, don't you think? (see www.bonamoi.co.uk) for a journal of their recent travels. I'll email him :)

[Randy & Betty in Pa]

I eat meat...I am going to continue to eat meat... I am going to continue to eat meat without even feeling guilt... This thread has touched on levels of individuals morality as well as hypocracy... To that I will say that I am totally opposed to Sportsman Hunting... Should it be outlawed? No. I'm just opposed to it. Will I eat deer, bear or the meat of other wild animals? No, not knowingly...Will I eat beef? YESSSS, will I have seconds? If I am hungry and it tastes good YESS... Does this make me a hypocrite? NO... Just for the record nature has inbred the human spiecies as being carnivorious... That said lets go have some White Castles....

Best to all

R. from pa

[aabram]

Think you'll find we're omnivores actually, but don't let THAT stop you getting cancer... :)

[pulmike]

My own sense of right and wrong allows me to eat meat without guilt. However, I reject any type of hunting for fun, canned or otherwise. I am ok with killing for food, but I am not ok about doing it for the fun of it. It seems immoral and even evil to get a kick out of killing other creatures. My line isn't popular here in the rural west, where many people hunt and kill wild creatures for the combined purpose of sport and food, and believe in the idea that it is fine to enjoy hunting "so long as you don't waste the meat".

I admit to being an irreconcilable hypocrite though. I do like to fish. I don't know why fishing for fun doesn't appall me, it just doesn't. I've always been a little conflicted about the fact that I do like that for sport- even though I throw them all back (we call it "catch and release"), all of them are somewhat injured, and on a bad day some few die. I guess I can live with myself because I do not seek their death, nor enjoy it when it does happen.

pulmike

[RedjackRyan]

As an aspiring Chef and avid Barbecuer, it should be painfully obvious which side of this debate i'm on.

My philosophy runs more akin to Randy Pa's where meat is whats for dinner and lots of it. That said, I can also sympathise with those who have voiced their opinions on canned hunting and animal farming.. the animal farms are indeed horrific to see but as someone else has pointed out, there are a lot of people to be fed and unfortunately the farm method is the most efficient and economical way for business to provide the food that people want.

I have absolutely no problem killing my food and have done so on many occassions, whether it be land based or aquatic makes no difference. I also have little issue with hunting, provided the field is relatively level.. Hunting a deer with a high powered assault rifle, laser range finding scope, and nightvision goggles.. isn't hunting.. Thats murder. Hunting the same deer with a bow and arrow or muzzleloader requires a helluva lot of skill. I'm also adamant that you eat what you kill.. I actually stopped accepting venison from a friend at work because i learned that he doesnt eat game meat, he just enjoys killing the deer.

I have one close vegetarian friend.. one.. singular.. why? Because this person doesn't push her 'choice' on me, nor do I on her. We respect each others right to eat what we feel comfortable with and leave it at that. I'm also quite confident we could happily share a kitchen and even prepare a meal for each other without getting into arguements over murdering little animals for their flesh and dying of cancer.. Besides, who's to say plants don't feel pain? Think about that the next time you bite into a tomato. :D

now i do have many other vegetarian aquaintances and i even invite them to my barbecues. I'm more than happy to prepare vegetarian meals and for the most part I don't run into problems.. but there's always the one person who can't have any part of their food anywhere near animal products.. Hey, if you have a medical reason i'm cool... otherwise i'll be happy to give directions to the farmers market.

My ramble has been all about trends i notice, someone makes a decision that changes their life in a positive way and now feels the need to convert everyone to that way of thinking. While i'm extremely open to discussion on any topic, i'm exhausted from everyone trying to help me be saved from this that and the other thing. all i want is dinner..

[Dee]

What a timely thread.

My boyfriend and I were just having this discussion over our delicious turkey dinners in a restaurant at lunch.

Off the top, let me say that I completely agree that hunting for “sport” is inane and pointless – yes even cruel.

I neither hunt nor fish. It’s not in protest, I just don’t care for either, tho admittedly I’ve never tried hunting. One of Jim’s brothers does hunt and shares the meat with him and his other brother and their families. Jim has offered me venison on occasion, but he quickly learned I will never touch the stuff. Just the thought of wild anything meat makes me gag. Except salmon. Yum!

The Canadian aboriginal Inuit people hunt all the time. It's part of their culture. Who is anyone to try and impose their personal preferences on them?


... the animal farms are indeed horrific to see but as someone else has pointed out, there are a lot of people to be fed and unfortunately the farm method is the most efficient and economical way for business to provide the food that people want.

There is no denying this is reality. It's unreasonable to think that everyone can afford organic or free-range poultry. Will meat give you cancer? Perhaps. But so might the products in your home or the air we breathe every day – for those of us who live in industrialised societies.

We also covered what Redjack suggests: how do we know vegetables don't feel pain when harvested or eaten? They too are living things. I’m serious. But do we need an advocacy group for them too?

Also, I have friends who choose a vegetarian diet, but they aren’t extreme in their views, or try to impose their choices on others who don’t choose that.

My two cents.

[DaveM]

Most of the traditional habitat of the Inuit has little or no vegetation--a vegetarian diet would be impossible.

And I really have to say that I take the "meat gives you cancer" comments with a major grain of salt (which is also, conversely, bad for you, supposedly). I've read similar material in "The Watchtower" (which limits its condemnation to beef). It has the same ring as the "abortions cause breast cancer" tale circulated by pro-lifers. A somewhat-related rumor is debunked at http://www.snopes.com/horrors/gruesome/fecalcolon.asp .

Any number of plants contain carcinogens--asparagus is one example. And there is NO vegetable-based source of the essential vitamin B12. Vegetarians generally get theirs from spirulina--an animal.

There is no excuse for inhumane or wasteful farming practices--probably worth noting that the American way of raising food crops is also among the least efficient and sustainable in the world. But a fiction which requires the initial premise that prior to factory farming there was some sort of golden age of vegetarianism (I am unaware of any vegetarian society in recorded history) only undermines any effort to improve conditions on farms and pushes to the fringes a number of ideas which ought to receive far more consideration.

[ponytail]

On the subject of plants having feelings: I'm convinced they do. I've had roomates who were good with plants, and I remember being amazed at their visible reactions to music in particular. One roomate even talked to them, and swore it had an effect.

Dave is better with plants than I am -- we've had one potted one in the bedroom for about a decade, and its care is emphatically his department. I'm really good at caring for animals, and I bond closely with them, but it seems I actually have a talent for killing plants just by going anywhere near them. It reminds me of those scenes in movies where the vampire touches a flower and it withers and dies! A former roomate once told me I had a "grey thumb."

Anyway -- I could easily believe plants feel pain. Unfortunately, in order to be nutritious any food has to have living enzymes in it. Living things have to eat other living things in order to stay alive. That's just how nature works. But at least people of conscience can be aware of needless inhumane practices and try to avoid them personally, and not support those who engage in them by buying their products.

I don't hunt or fish, but I live in an area where a lot of people do -- particularly poor people -- and actually feed their families with what they kill. I can't judge them harshly for it. But trophy hunting, and especially "canned hunting," I find pointlessly cruel, and not sporting at all.

BTW, Dave, the untruth of that particular legend doesn't change my mind about one thing: John Wayne was full of crap!

[snakegrl]

I'm positive all living things feel pain in some way, react to any stimuli on some level or another. We may not always understand how, but I think it's enough to know that they do,( or at least consider the possibility) be respectful and aware.

Humans are an aggresive species. Look at how hard we work to not cause uneccasary harm to others, whether it be through a tactless comment, fanatic hatred or physical violence.
Maybe it's our nature to be so aggresive since our bodies are weak compared to other animals. We have worked hard to survive ice ages, mamoths, ect...
But we are way more than our hostility.
If we spent more time cultivating awareness instead of judging everybody, I wonder if the cancer rate would drop.

As far as hunting goes, I have already said how I feel about it on this dredged up post.

As far as John Wayne being full of crap, it might explain why he walked the way he did.

[Randy & Betty in Pa]

I wouldn't mind going to this little Canned hunting preserve in Texas... I hear the place is fully stocked with Lawyers and you don't even need a license... I learned about from Vice President Cheney..

Best to all

R. from Pa

[DaveM]

Am quite in agreement about John Wayne. Mind, the Journal of the Royal College of Physicians in England once reported the case of a fellow who had a two-foot slab of impacted oat bran surgically removed from his colon. I wonder what he was full of?

I, too, have a "gray thumb"--learned long ago that I'd never make a gardener and even house plants prove to be too much of a challenge. Animals love me--when I lived out in the country, dogs and cats would come to me when injured, sometimes from long distances. Never have been able to explain that.

And I should add that I was never much of a hunter. I did it for some years, along with fishing, ate everything I "bagged", wasting as little as possible. Actually, it's an experience I believe any omnivore should have. If you're going to eat meat, you should at least once be shoulder-deep in blood and guts dressing whatever it is out. I have done so--it left me determined more than ever before not to waste what I had killed or assisted in butchering (I'm talking deer and cattle here).

Finally decided that it was much more fun to hunt with a camera as there were no season, licenses, or bag limits involved. If I was hungry and needed food, I retain the skills and the tools to go out and get it. Mind, I also have a fair amount of knowledge of wild plants and other edibles which would go a long way toward sustaining one's diet as well.

[snakegrl]

I wouldn't mind going to this little Canned hunting preserve in Texas... I hear the place is fully stocked with Lawyers and you don't even need a license... I learned about from Vice President Cheney..

Best to all

R. from Pa
I'll drive:D

DaveM, I agree with you about participating in prepareing the meat you eat (other than in a skillet).It does make you much less wasteful not only with meat , but with everything.
I helped my Dad dress out a deer once, even tried to tan the hide per instructions from the Foxfire book.(you really have to work your butt off).
I've cleaned coutless fish that I caught and ate. Fish guts are no fun.
I only catch what I'm going to eat.
Doing all this brings back the reality of life and death.
Too many people in industrialized countries don't get that, are scared to death of a chicken and waste far too much. To me, the latter is the area in most need of attention.

Dave,sometimes the critters just know where to go.:)

[aabram]

I wouldn't mind going to this little Canned hunting preserve in Texas... I hear the place is fully stocked with Lawyers and you don't even need a license... I learned about from Vice President Cheney..

Best to all

R. from Pa

Don't forget to reserve places for Tony Blair and Gordon Brown...I see they're fighting like the children they are once again, oh and save some more for the other twits who can't make up their minds, yeah? :D

[Bat]

If people would only kill what they are going to eat, it would certainly make one think about going to war, wouldn't it?:eek:

[paularoid]

If people would only kill what they are going to eat, it would certainly make one think about going to war, wouldn't it?:eek:
Unless your name is Jeffrey Dahmer. :D

In all seriousness, there's a "shooter bull" camp going in here just a few miles away and it's come to the notice of the folks around here. People are NOT happy.

They're called "shooter bull" camps here because what they do is fence in a large area and fill it full of bull elk that are then shot. Real sporting.....

[aabram]

Unless your name is Jeffrey Dahmer. :D

In all seriousness, there's a "shooter bull" camp going in here just a few miles away and it's come to the notice of the folks around here. People are NOT happy.

They're called "shooter bull" camps here because what they do is fence in a large area and fill it full of bull elk that are then shot. Real sporting.....

This is what it's all about, be it lions, tigers, cheetahs, kangaroos, monkeys or bulls. It's not fair on the animal. So how to stop it...... governments aren't listening (yet) but they will..... I certainly didn't intend to get people confused with hunting for food or meat slaughter, which are completely separate issues. I just get mad when people divert from the thread, which is why I let it rest for 6 months, and go to the website on the first page of this thread for more information. I SHALL set homework, and there'll be a test on Monday!!!!!!!!!! :D

[DaveM]

It would be relatively simple to stop guys (and yes, "canned hunting" is mainly a "guy thing", alas), from engaging in the practice, driving Humvees, etc., etc. if one could simply convince those who do so that continuing to do so will cause their penises to shrink.

"Trophy hunting" of any form, to me, seems the ultimate expression of some incredible inferiority complex.

[snakegrl]

It would be relatively simple to stop guys (and yes, "canned hunting" is mainly a "guy thing", alas), from engaging in the practice, driving Humvees, etc., etc. if one could simply convince those who do so that continuing to do so will cause their penises to shrink.

"Trophy hunting" of any form, to me, seems the ultimate expression of some incredible inferiority complex.
LOLOLOL Well put. But, I think they do it because they DO have teeny weenies. I take comfort in the thought that in reincarnation, some of us have to come back as pinworms.

[aabram]

Horrifying article in the Daily Mail this week, detailing the costs of these bloody (no I'm not swearing) holidays. Tell you I didn't glance too long at it..... :mad:

[Annie's Dad]

LOLOLOL Well put. But, I think they do it because they DO have teeny weenies. I take comfort in the thought that in reincarnation, some of us have to come back as pinworms.

Hmm...interesting theory. I hunt with a bow and rifle, and am a supporter of gun rights to "compensate" for my tiny weenie. OK, I've been found out.

My wife, Sher, is also a bow/rifle hunter as well as a gun rights supporter. I wonder what she's "compensating" for.

Oh, I know. The lack of a good man in her life!:D

Best
Chris (teeny) & Sher (Longing)

[DaveM]

Nothing quite like hunting a bow (or a muzzleloader, as I did some years ago). If you can outsmart a wild animal enough to get within range, I'd say you've earned your shot.

My earlier comments, incidentally, were directed merely at "canned hunting" and not the genuine article. I don't believe hunters who are ethical in their behavior are compensating for anything. Certainly I wasn't--of course, I never managed to shoot at anything either.

[Annie's Dad]

Nothing quite like hunting a bow (or a muzzleloader, as I did some years ago). If you can outsmart a wild animal enough to get within range, I'd say you've earned your shot.

My earlier comments, incidentally, were directed merely at "canned hunting" and not the genuine article. I don't believe hunters who are ethical in their behavior are compensating for anything. Certainly I wasn't--of course, I never managed to shoot at anything either.

I post in jest!:D

We hunt turkey and deer for the same reason we have a garden and harvest our own veg. We're poor! Besides, we believe in doing the dirty work ourselves!:D

Chris

[DaveM]

I hear you--I've never been in that situation but know others who have been and are. My hat's off to them for taking the responsibility.

[aabram]

www.cannedlion.co.za For those of who need to see the history of this thread. I gave this information to wvrose to post originally until I could find my feet and come here myself. I was at the talk (and got very wet trying to do that, I may add) I was flustered :( , wet, and then mad :mad: at the cruelty going on for these poor creatures who don't have a hope in hell of getting away. And I won't let this thread go away either ... I owe that at least to Chris Mercer :) And read about Frida as well... lol