What the F**k Happened to Black Popular Music?

[paularoid]

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=21243

What the F**k Happened to Black Popular Music?
Posted: 2006-04-06

By Kenny Drew, Jr.

I've decided to add this section to my website as a vehicle to express my views on various topics, musical and otherwise, that have been on my mind lately. You may wonder why I'm talking about popular music in this first installment, since I am generally thought of as a “jazz” musician. However, anyone who knows me knows that my tastes in music are very eclectic (as are those of most jazz musicians, quiet as it's kept). In fact when I started my career as a professional musician, I was not playing jazz. I started out playing in R&B groups and Top-40 bands. We only played jazz if the club was almost empty! The 60s - 80s was such an incredible time for all styles of popular music, but for the sake of this discussion I will concentrate specifically on black music (or rhythm-and-blues, or funk, or whatever the hell you want to call it).

Recently, I've been listening to a lot of my favorite music from that time, and to be honest, I am disgusted and sickened at how far our music has declined in the quality of the music and its message. How the hell did we get from Motown to Death Row; from Earth Wind & Fire to Ludacris; from Luther Vandross to 50Cent?

I remember a time in our music when songs had great melodies and chord changes, you actually had to be able to sing or play an instument to become a musician, and Michael Jackson was black! It's a sad commentary on our culture and society when the biggest thing in popular music is an ex-crack dealer whose claim to fame is being shot nine times, and one of the greatest entertainers in the world was on trial for child molestation. If that's not a sign of the coming Apocalypse, I don't know what is! And if 50Cent was really shot nine times, why couldn't one of those bullets have hit a vital organ? Who the **** was shooting at him: Stevie Wonder? And as far as all these black rappers getting shot, how about a little equal opportunity violence here? Can't somebody pop a cap in Eminem's white ass?

Another issue in the decline of music today is the stupidity and negativity in the lyrics and the video images that accompany this so-called “music”. I recently discovered that there is now a form of rap called “coke rap”, in which the lyrics deal mainly with the sale, distribution and use of cocaine and crack. I find it offensive that any record company would try to make a profit from glorifying something that has decimated the black community the way that crack has. I hope that one day while 50Cent is lounging by the pool in his humongous mansion surrounded by beautiful groupies, he might consider how many lives were ruined by the poison he used to sell, and how many more lives will be potentially damaged by the musical poison he's selling now. There's a video by Ludacris that I've seen of a song called “Act a Fool”. All I can remember about the video is that there were a lot of shots of him and his boys running from the cops. Don't we have enough young black men running around acting like fools without some idiot rapper encouraging it?( But then again, Ludacris probably makes more money in one month than I'll make in my entire life as a jazz musician. So who's the idiot here? Maybe it's me!) Remember when the lyrics in our music spoke of love or the loss of love? Who can forget the uplifting messages of peace, hope and spirituality in the lyrics of Earth Wind & Fire? Or the social consciousness and protest messages in the lyrics of Gil Scott-Heron and Marvin Gaye? How the hell did we get from “Just to be Close to You Girl” to “Back That Ass Up Bitch”? How the hell did we get from “What's Goin' On” and “You Haven't Done Nothin' “ to “Me So Horny” and “My Hump”?

Last, but not least, it's time to address the musical quality of this bullshit, or more accurately, the lack of it. Way back when, when I first started studying music I was told that music had to consist of three elements: melody, harmony and rhythm. Rap music (an oxymoron similar to “military intelligence “or “jumbo shrimp”) has basically discarded the first two elements and is left with nothing but rhythm.

Since only one element of music is present in most of this crap it doesn't even justify being called music. Our culture has been dumbed down to the point where your average dumb-ass American can't tell the difference between a truly great musician and somebody who's been studying their instrument for a week. Playing a musical instrument at a high level is no longer a well-respected skill in our society. (I'm not 100% sure that it ever really was.) In fact, to be honest, I think that most of the students in music schools today who are studying jazz and classical music are wasting their fucking time and their parents' money! (Boy, am I gonna get in trouble for saying this!) Why spend all that time mastering an instrument when you can just get a drum machine and a microphone, write some asinine lyrics about bitches, ho's and pimps and make a ton of money? Sometimes I wonder whether I'm wasting my time in this cesspool called the music industry. These days it seems like the only way to make any serious money in music is to produce some bullshit that doesn't even sound like music!

So what's the solution here? Damned if I know! But I did see an encouraging story on the news recently. A billboard advertising 50Cent's new movie was put up in a black neighborhood not far from a school. In the billboard 50Cent is seen with his heavily tatooed back to the camera with his arms outstretched in a crucifix-like pose with a microphone in one hand and a gun in the other. Understandably, the community was outraged. They held protests, got some media coverage, and eventually succeeded in getting the movie company to remove the billboard. I say that we use this as a model nationwide.

I propose a nationwide boycott of rap music; perhaps by picketing in front of record company offices and major record store chains. Anybody remember the “Disco Sucks” movement in the 70s? Maybe it's time for a “Rap Sucks” movement now. Who's with me here? (Actually, looking back on the disco era, that music sounds like Beethoven in comparison to the rap garbage that's poisoning our airwaves now!) Maybe we could have a big “Rap Sucks” rally somewhere. (As long as it doesn't escalate into a riot like the “Disco Sucks” one did.)

[paularoid]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/col/scrouch/

Hitting back at hip-hop hustlers

By Stanley Crouch

Having grown up in the midst of many intelligent, down-home and courageous black women, I was appalled for 20 years by the silence of the women who were being demeaned and turned into sex toys so consistently in the worst hip-hop imagery. Where were the descendants of those black women who gave so much of the heat to the civil rights movement and made so many sacrifices for it?

Why didn't anyone have the moxie, in the spirit of Rosa Parks and Fannie Lou Hamer, to take on the $1.5 billion rap industry? Perhaps because, in our culture at this time, cowardice is more common than the common cold.

Yet when, in 2005, Essence started its "Take Back the Music" campaign to question this hate-filled and decadent material, 1 million hits came to its Web site in the first month. Yes, the campaign festered for awhile because of a lack of funding - but at a recent music festival in Atlanta, it began wobbling back to its feet. Eight thousand people in attendance seemed ready for war against dehumanizing images.

Well, time will tell (perhaps literally). Essence is, after all, owned by Time Warner, which makes more than a few pennies from hip-hop material.

But even if this campaign should peter out, the day is far from lost. Warming up in another corner is Yvonne Bynoe, author and lecturer. Having had more than enough, Bynoe wrote a remarkably intelligent defense of Oprah Winfrey on Davey D's Hip Hop Daily News (Daveyd.com) last month. Go there, I urge you, and read it yourself. With the letter, titled "Do Blacks Really Need Oprah to Be Down with Hip Hop?," Bynoe earns a place as a Thomas Paine in the movement against female degradation.

In reaction to the rappers like Ludacris who complain that Winfrey - the American Queen of Goodwill - has disrespected them or failed to support their careers, her rebuttal is so well thought out, so articulate and so full of righteous anger that I am sure that 50 Cent and Ice Cube suffered skin burns if they read it. Or could read it.

The young lady knows their work well, sees the illogic of their assertions and lays them out in a row like dead fish in the market. Unlike so many critics who tiptoe into such territory, Bynoe shows no inclination to be silenced by a flag of false ethnic solidarity. With confidence, she slaps aside all the manipulative ploys that rappers use against any who dare question their insipid material.

Of the attacks on Winfrey, Bynoe writes, "The underlining sentiment is that if she is unwilling to set aside her values and opinions, then she can't be down for black people. This position assumes that what is good for black entertainers is good for black folks, and that notion is arguable. There are many media outlets that expose U.S. rap artists to the global marketplace. However, Oprah is virtually alone in her ability, through her selection of guests, to provide the world with a broader view of black Americans and their achievements. For most of us, particularly black women, who are frequently equated with the images of half-naked, gyrating females found in the rap music videos, a countervailing portrayal is welcomed." Uh-oh.

Beware, you gold-and-diamond-toothed dogs, they are coming for you. They are young, educated, good-looking and fiery, meaning that they cannot be dismissed as old, out-of-touch, frustrated hags.

The dogcatchers are on the way.

Originally published on July 9, 2006

[DaveM]

Something seems decidedly wrong with some people when a popular music genre arises in which gun battles almost routinely break out at concerts--and sold-out crowds continue to attend.

I'm not knocking rap overall, mind. It originated as the folk music of the inner-city black community. Some of the early rappers will undoubtedly be recognized as musical pioneers someday. And rap is hardly the first pop music genre to be associated with drug abuse....that goes back at least a century and.

But I'm reminded of how a nation was shocked in 1969 by the murder of one man at the Rolling Stones' infamous Altamont Festival concert, at how that one death (of a man who was holding a gun, conversely) essentially put an end to the days of peace, love, and rock 'n roll. The Stones have their share of misogynistic songs ("Under My Thumb", etc.) of course, but they've always been seen as the "bad boys" of rock 'n roll, not the mainstream of the genre.

Rock fans have long idolized several stars who did themselves in via drug overdose (for that matter, the same was true of a fair number of jazz legends--and let us not forget Hank Williams). Rappers canonize performers who have been murdered--at times as the result of friction between rival performers (haven't yet figured out how a disagreement over music leads to a gun battle, but perhaps that's just me). There's a bit of a difference.

It is the duty of an artist to test limits, to reveal the new and unseen for the enlightenment of those who see or hear his or her works performed or displayed. I find no enlightenment in the glorification of abusing women or cold-blooded murder. Nor anything new or previously unseen in the image of a sobbing rape victim or a body face down in the gutter with a back full of bullet holes. Nor do I see any testing of limits--quite to the contrary, rap culture observes limits stringently, by ignoring them as much as may be possible until the process is interrupted by law enforcement.

And yes, this has been a rant.

[Dee]

Don't we have enough young black men running around acting like fools without some idiot rapper encouraging it?

And that, more than anything, is why I cannot comprehend Rap "music," or its popularity. Admittedly there does seem to be a trend in the culture to pander to the lowest denominator ... because it sells so well.

[ponytail]

I first became aware of rap music in the eighties when I heard Kurtis Blow. His songs -- like "It's Tough," a litany of all the ways in which life as an urban poor person is hard -- all had clear song structure, and he had a real band playing behind him, not a bunch of sampled sounds stolen from other artists. His words were about social issues, and were well-crafted, full of really surprising rhymes, memorable lines, etc. I thought, "Cool! This genre interests me." It did bug me that melody wasn't part of it, but otherwise it had a lot going for it. Unfortunately, the genre rapidly went downhill after that and became the mean-spirited, manufactured, macho brag-a-thon it is today.

I like to believe that maybe what's happening is that we never hear the good rappers who are still saying left-of-center political things because big money won't get behind them and give them a chance -- that the crap rises to the top just like it does with white pop music, with Britney Spears getting huge exposure while great artists like Janis get little airplay. Maybe that's true, maybe it's not. There's a young man on our local poetry scene, for instance, who calls himself Shipwreck, who's doing amazing work that's essentially rap, full of sophisticated wordplay and vivid imagery and telling real stories of life on the streets. He performs his raps a capella and gets powerful reactions from local audiences. And he's really trying to sincerely say things that are uniquely his to say. Who knows how many other artists like him are out there, only being heard in their own local communities?

Rap is supposed to have evolved from a form of black folk poetry called "Toasts" that has all but died out in its original form. "Toasts" were narrative rhyming poems black men would say to each other at the barber shop or bar, usually describing the surprising exploits of an underdog character getting over on the man, having sexual escapades, getting away with an outrageous crime, etc. A well known one was the story of "Signifyin' Monkey," a monkey who keeps outwitting a lion; another was "Shine," the tale of a black Titanic survivor who swims away from the wreck in progress, refusing to save various white people who call out to him for help. The last line: "By the time the news broke that the Titanic was sunk, Shine was up in Harlem, damn near drunk." No one knew who originally came up with the poems, and they changed with the telling, with various tellers having their own version of the poem -- so that now folklorists collect varying versions, as they do with Child ballads, etc. The poems were often funny and very bawdy. The misogyny in rap may come from the fact that pimps were often portrayed as heroes in these poems -- and that reciting them was traditionally something only men did. If anyone's curious about Toasts there's a very good book of them, with a lot of history and background as well, called "Get Your Ass In The Water And Swim Like Me," by Bruce Jackson, that was recently reissued by Routledge. Unfortunately, very few fans of rap are aware of the connection to Toasts -- or, for that matter, that Toasts ever existed. Like ragtime music -- the heritage left by Scott Joplin is all but ignored in the black community -- another real folk tradition is being blotted out by a plastic mass-produced substitute.

[paularoid]

Both of the authors of these two articles are "black" men by the way. I'm reminded of, and these articles go hand-in-hand with, comedian Bill Cosby's recent rants about what has become of "black" society these days.
.

[ponytail]

A couple of additional thoughts:

Kenny Drew mentions the "Disco Sucks" movement.That "movement" has in recent years been accused of being racist -- it was all white, and focused on how mostly black disco artists were taking chart recognition and sales away from the white rock bands who'd dominated things before the disco craze. Disco, however, was indeed a craze -- it came and went, though it did leave its mark in the form of techno and house music. Rap looks like it's here to stay. Anyway, as a white person, I'm a little uncomfortable unilaterally bashing something that's not my culture. But I like the idea of women within the black community voicing their objections to it.

And I must say -- 50 cent is indeed a long way downhill from Duke Ellington, Billie Holiday, Aretha Franklin, Smokey Robinson, Louis Armstrong, Mahalia Jackson, Sam Cooke, Bessie Smith, Otis Redding, Miles Davis, Nina Simone, etc.

[janisian]

You know, I was one of the early defenders of rap - I thought it heralded a great return to the early 50's "doo-wop" days of black music; kids singing on street corners, needing no studio, fancy equipment, etc to be creative.
But I have been enormously disheartened at what it's turned into. And worse yet, at the continued racial separation, dividing lines, "us" vs. "them" attitudes of the community that listens to it.
I must admit to getting a nasty kick, though, when I see some redneck white guy down here driving around with a doo-rag on his head, listening to a black rapper singing about what a low-life scum he is...

[ponytail]

I must admit to getting a nasty kick, though, when I see some redneck white guy down here driving around with a doo-rag on his head, listening to a black rapper singing about what a low-life scum he is...

That never fails to crack me up when I see it here in Central PA, too. And I see it a lot. :rolleyes:

I agree with you, Janis. Rap could easily have been a great breeding ground for grassroots creativity, instead of a divisive force that does damage while it makes money. Too bad it didin't.:(

[DaveM]

I tend to get a kick out of watching rednecks do just about anything....it can be more entertaining than watching wildlife. Or is that a redundancy?

A lot of the rhythms used in rap music strike me as very similar to the "jive talk" of the 40s or so--Bob Dylan borrowed a lot of the rhyming schemes for his best-known work. And as with all musical genres, rap has produced its share of genuine stars--the acting and musical careers of Will Smith and Ice-T, just to toss out two names that come readily to mind show that, yes, some rappers have genuine talent. In time, I expect the wheat will be separated from the chaff....though I'm not sure how well that process works in today's music industry.

As to some of the more notorious "gangsa rappers", it's probably worth noting that "white music" has a rough equivalent in the form of "hate rock", beloved by the white superiority folks and Neo-Nazis. I doubt that any ethnic group has a monopoly on such rubbish. If I had children who began bringing home CDs by "The Aryan Brigade", I'd have a right to be concerned, wouldn't I? The same, to my mind, goes for any music that glorifies pointless violence, drug trafficking, and the abuse of women.

[ponytail]

The scary thing is that the most reprehensible gangsta rappers often have major label support behind them. The white supremacist loonies don't...do they?:eek:
Please tell me they don't....

[DaveM]

Not yet, thank heaven.....but anything seems possible these days.

[hoops]

"i don't care who you are it doesn't mean you have to be ugly" poorly quoting janis' infamous new years eve with howie stern

[Wildflower Fever]

I became a teenager at the onset of rap, and I actually enjoyed it, along with 60's and 70's music of many genres. I also liked the short-lived alterna-boom of the early 90's. But, the rap I loved was mostly intellectual with a message and groundbreaking beats. I liked Public Enemy, despite their at times reverse-racial overtones, I liked A Tribe Called Quest, KRS-ONE, Eric B. and Rakim, and so on. These artists used wonderful lyrics and beats to make up for what may be seen as a lack of "actual music." But now, it is just a disgusting cesspool of get-rich-quick schemes, mostly consisting of unimaginative beats/music, juvenile lyrics about bling-bling and bitches. Nevertheless, we must remember just like folk and rock and whatever, it's not the artists or the lack of, it's the industry that's erect for the profit templates out there. There may be rappers with a message, but they're not exposed, just as Janis doesn't recieve fair exposure. I think the entire industry is a cancer, and the megalocorporate ownership of our media expediates this. Remember (I don't figuratively, not being born yet) when songs like CSNY's "Ohio" got a lot of airplay? Well, conversely now, in equally strange times, Neil Young's "Living WIth War" EP gets almost no airplay. Revolution is the only answer, of course.

[GodSistah]

I http://godsistah.com/HeartBeating.gif Hip Hop and Rap...Poppin and Breakin...Graffiti and jammin on the one! ;)

It's just like any other genre of music, if you listen or judge only by what's on the radio or tv or pushed by the major labels, you miss out on so much good stuff...there are so many thought provoking hip-hop, rap and spoken word artists out there today.

As well, every genre of music has its share of crappy content.

But to each their own. As is so often said, there are two types of music: good music and bad music...or in my own words...music I like and music I don't like!

:)

~Andrea~

[DaveM]

Actually, I could well have added to my post above that plenty of country music gets airplay and promotion these days which uses lyrics drawn straight from the likes of Rush Limbaugh. Not really the same thing, but if you happen to be of Middle Eastern descent, you'll find that any number of popular country singers most likely have a problem with you.

Of course, there's country music and there's what someone (possibly on this board) called "that cowboy hat crap" that gets played on the radio of late.

[GodSistah]

The mention of country music brings to mind an excellent Country/Rap song! The Charlie Daniels Band's "The Devil Went Down to Georgia". I love that song! But I still believe the devil won that fiddle shoot out!

Country/Rap! Yeee-hahhhh! :D

~Andrea~

[ponytail]

I http://godsistah.com/HeartBeating.gif

It's just like any other genre of music, if you listen or judge only by what's on the radio or tv or pushed by the major labels, you miss out on so much good stuff...there are so many thought provoking hip-hop, rap and spoken word artists out there today.

~Andrea~

Could you tell us who some of them are? I'd be interested in checking them out.

[GodSistah]

Right now I'm at work listening to one of my favorite new cds called, "Beatbox Metafication" by Mohammed. You might remember Mohammed as one of the roommates from The Real World 3 in San Francisco. He is also a former member of a popular Bay Area group called, The Midnight Voices, that were just totally ignored by mainstream media.

Here is his myspace page: http://www.myspace.com/mospeaks

:)

~Andrea~

[Wildflower Fever]

Actually, I could well have added to my post above that plenty of country music gets airplay and promotion these days which uses lyrics drawn straight from the likes of Rush Limbaugh. Not really the same thing, but if you happen to be of Middle Eastern descent, you'll find that any number of popular country singers most likely have a problem with you.

Of course, there's country music and there's what someone (possibly on this board) called "that cowboy hat crap" that gets played on the radio of late.

Exactly. I'm not a country fan, perse, but I love Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Buck Owens, George Jones, etc. It was music with feeling and meaning. Now, country is like crappy rap or R+B, pumped out like a factory, with kneejerk tearjerk lyrics and a pre-recorded track of music devoid of soul and imagination.

[Wildflower Fever]

Could you tell us who some of them are? I'd be interested in checking them out.

KRS-One (Knowledge Reigns Supreme) still puts music out from time to time, and is a brilliant peace-loving man who puts out music with meaning. I still like Public Enemy, whose never put out an album without valid political rants.
Q-Tip, formerly of a Tribe Called Quest, is great too. The Roots are great and feature a full-fledged band rather than just a DAP track. A Minneapolis artist called Atmosphere also features a full band with meaningful lyrics, I saw him on Conan O'Brien recently.

[Dee]

Police seek clown-face robbers after rampage (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/14072006/6/n-odds-police-seek-clown-face-robbers-rampage.html)

SEATTLE (Reuters) - Police are on the lookout for members of a machete-wielding gang in angry clown make-up after a rampage of robbery and violence that left nearly two dozen people injured in a park in western Washington state.

The group, who said they were "juggalos," devotees of the Detroit-based rap-metal group Insane Clown Posse, attacked and robbed visitors to Fort Steilacoom Park while shouting "Woo, woo, juggalo!" to each other, according to court documents.

Prosecutors in Pierce County south of Seattle charged three people with assault and robbery last week, but police in the City of Lakewood said they are searching for another eight to 10 suspects who took part.

According to police reports, some members of the gang wore black hooded sweatshirts or clown make-up and told victims they would "cut their heads off" with machetes. They stole cash, wallets and cell phones, the reports said.

"We don't see too many attacks like this," said Lakewood police Lt. Dave Guttu.

Juggalos often dress in black and wear clown face paint.

[Oak Kitten]

When they catch the rest of those juggalo idiots, they should lock them in a cell for a year with Barry Manilow music piped in 24/7

Oak

[ponytail]

Yet another good reason to be afraid of clowns.:eek:

[Dee]

Any meduim that glorifies violence and killing - or leads to it - I do not see as an artform. Not in movies and not in music.

[GodSistah]

"Smackwater Jack, he bought a shotgun
Cause he was in the mood for a little confrontation
He just let it all hang loose, didn't think about the noose
He couldn't take no more abuse
So he shot down the congregation"

"Smackwater Jack" by Carole King from the "Tapestry" album

"Hey Joe,
Where you goin' with that gun in your hand?
I'm goin' down to shoot my old lady
You know, I caught her messin' around with another man, yeah"

"Hey Joe" by Jimi Hendrix from the "Are You Experienced?" album

"Oh, the shark, babe, has such teeth, dear
And it shows them pearly white
Just a jackknife has old MacHeath, babe
And he keeps it … ah … out of sight.

Ya know when that shark bites, with his teeth, babe
Scarlet billows start to spread
Fancy gloves, though, wears old MacHeath, babe
So there’s nevah, nevah a trace of red.

Now on the sidewalk … uuh, huh … whoo … sunny mornin’ … uuh, huh
Lies a body just oozin' life … eeek!
And someone’s sneakin' ‘round the corner
Could that someone be Mack the Knife?"

"Mack the Knife" by Bobby Darrin from any of a million compilation cds

:)

~Andrea~

[Dee]

You forgot Maxwell's Silver Hammer by The Beatles.

Bang! Bang! Maxwell's silver hammer
Came down upon her head.
Bang! Bang! Maxwell's silver hammer
Made sure that she was dead.

Point taken Andrea,

Only I'm sure none of those songs inspired people to go robbing and assaulting, or threaten to cut anyone's head off with machetes.

[GodSistah]

ewe....I did forget that one! That's a creepy song. :)

If we could just get that person who is knocking off Helen Reddy fans to knock off the Insane Clown Posse fans instead...or just the Insane Clown Posse themselves...that would make many rap fans happy as well.

I'm so glad that this thread didn't turn into one of those where people throw things at each other, lol.

Instead, I think it is a great testament to the diversity of background and taste of Janis Ian fans.

I think it's pretty cool that Janis Ian's music can come up in rotation between rap songs by Common, gospel by Beverly Crawford and the piano and vocal stylings of Tori Amos all in a 15 minute span on my mp3 player.

I just love music!

:)

~Andrea~

[Dee]

I'm so glad that this thread didn't turn into one of those where people throw things at each other, lol.

Instead, I think it is a great testament to the diversity of background and taste of Janis Ian fans

Yah you're right, it is great Andrea.

Hey, how about you and me take over the world and show'm all how to get along eh?

:D

[ponytail]

"Mack The Knife" was originally from "The Threepenny Opera," music by Kurt Weill, lyrics by Bertoldt Brecht. Bobby Darin's version may not have inspired any massacres, but it pretty much massacred the song. In the show the song is about a "womanizing," murdering gangster, and it's sung as a tongue-in-cheek "solemn" crime ballad.

But your point is well taken, Andrea. Pop, rock and particularly folk music have plenty of songs about criminals and outlaws. Late in his career, Johnny Cash released a whole album called "Murder" that was nothing but songs about that subject.

I can see how Inane Clown Posers, or whatever they're called, are related to this violent incident when the assailants made themselves up to look like the band. But I'm dubious about the argument that they're therefore responsible for the violence. A person who can be triggered to violence by hearing a song or seeing a movie would have to be already predisposed toward violence by child abuse or early trauma. David "Son Of Sam" Berkowitz said a dog told him to kill those people -- that doesn't mean NYC police should have gone around gunning down dogs.

Nobody has yet used the word "censorship." I remember being uncomfortable with Tipper Gore when she began her campaign to label albums with "objectionable" lyrics, and at that point we hadn't seen anything like the sexism and violence we routinely find in lyrics now. But it's a far cry from identifying something so folks who won't like it can avoid it, or keep their kids away from it, and trying to prevent other adults from having access to it. What can we do but express our objections to it in public forums, and -- more to the point -- just not support the offending music ourselves?

[Dee]

My boyfriend is a huge Johnny Cash fan. Johnny is to him as Janis is to me.

However, with this new info, I'm wondering if I shouldn't hide all his knives when I go there tomorrow. :eek: LOL

[GodSistah]

Bobby Darin's version may not have inspired any massacres, but it pretty much massacred the song. LOL! That's somewhat how I feel about the Insane Clown Posse!


Late in his career, Johnny Cash released a whole album called "Murder" that was nothing but songs about that subject.

That came to mind when I saw the photos of that creep they arrested for murder and rape in Iraq. He had on a Johnny Cash t-shirt and I was thinking, now his defense team are gonna blame poor Johnny Cash and say his music made him do it. Good thing it wasn't a t-shirt of Biggie or 2Pac...or Judas Priest or Black Sabbath...who have been blamed in law suits for the ridiculous things people do.

In terms of the Insane Clown Posse, omg, there is no defense for them or their music.

I remember when Tipper Gore was all up in arms over her censorship cause...and everybody from The B-52's to Frank Zappa were defending rap music and music in general...and a big part of that was about the stupid 2 Live Crew album that was such a piece of crap. I was always amazed that it had to be over that stupid group that they were trying to make a point on free speach.

Common, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Digable Planets, PM Dawn, Arrested Development, Us3 or even Kanye West or The Red Hot Chili Peppers [rock/funk/rap] and many others would have been better groups to argue over...But now all these artists are thrown into one group with 2 Live Crew, Insane Clown Posse and countless others. But everybody in rap is not a hardcore thug or gangsta. Gangstas don't rap, they kill.

Even some of the pioneers of Gangsta rap, Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, Snoop Dogg, all of those who are still around have grown and matured in their music in the last few decades.

But anyway, that guy with the Johnny Cash t-shirt on - I was truly offended. I was thinking would somebody PLEASE get that t-shirt off that fool!

~Andrea~